Naive - Difference between DIR & hogarthian?

[SoCalAngel]

Similar Equipment. Its good to have consistancy....Lights in the same place...Knife in the same place...


For example...I have a buddy that dives a Mares Dragon Fly...I always have to ask him how the thing works.."just in case"...So similarity breeds familarity...which leads to "comfort" with your buddies gear...which leads to comfort in the water.

That makes sense. My regular dive buddy and I have been diving for about three years. We have very unlike gear, but we practice skills on every 4th or 5th dive, including bcd removal and ooa stuff. SO we are very familiar with each other's gear, but we don't have any similiar configurations.

Thanks, I'm going to bed now...

 

[JeffG]

JeffG,
Your well-known Canadian sense of self-worth is evident in your posts - it's why we like you: you're even nice when you insult others. Of course, I'm a Texan, we are not nice when insulted. But, you're forgiven.

Thank you

My opinions are based on real life experiences. My PADI DM card has even been turned down - twice in the Med and once in Chile; blew me away.

Oh my goodness...I've never had a problem with my PADI Adv Paint ballers card...but I'm not the world...The sample size is a bit small

GUE is not taught in dive shops all around the world, it's not even taught in 95% of the USA; neither is SSI, NAUI, nor PADI.

I never meant in "run of the mill" dive shops...GUE does not have an open water (yet...that may change...but I degress)...So you would have some other card PADI..SSI...Cracker Jacks....

So..if you showed your GUE Tech 1 card at a PADI shop...they might do the "*** is that"...and I will give you that...but then you could just show your PADI card (or whatever you had)

If you were doing Tech 1 or Tech 2 dives somewhere (with a technical dive shop)....They would probably recognize the GUE card....They might not like you...but they might see the value in it

By the way, 22C degrees here today, dove twice in Redfish Bay.

Its...around 0C and I have been forced to ICE dive...%$#^&* you

 

[BigboyDan]

JeffG,

I'll leave you with this:

I like GUE, but not DIR. As someone once said, "Read the Good Book, but beware the preacher handing out the plate."

 

[JeffG]

JeffG,

I'll leave you with this:

I like GUE, but not DIR. As someone once said, "Read the Good Book, but beware the preacher handing out the plate."

Actually...I do know what you are saying. So I will leave you with this...I have decided to ignore the noise factor.

 

[cornfed]

"Doing it Right" is either a marketing term... or it's a lie. If you want to be trained for extra-rec tecqniques try South Florida rather than Central Florida.

Good luck.

Thanks for destroying what had the potential of being a good discussion. I hope it made you feel like a big boy.

 

[diverbrian]

Maybe we can start over a bit here.


I use a Hogarthian rig. It is very similar to the one listed in the Doing It Right Fundamentals book that I received a couple of months ago. I did not learn DIR and have never taken a GUE course. I arrived at certain conclusions myself and my tech instructor is a cave diver. GUE was formed by cave divers, so there will always be certain similarities in gear and configuration of it.

The only problem that I have with GUE/ DIR is demonstrated in that book. They give you the answers that they want and (it seems) don't let you arrive the answers yourself. This tends to lead to a mind that is closed to other ideas. The experienced DIR divers know better and keep an open mind. IMHO, the bulk of the unpleasantness is from the people that that took DIRf early and haven't been diving long enough to at least see what other people are doing.

I have had some unpleasant experiences with DIR shops where the shop manager felt that I needed the lecture about the mixes in my tanks. That led to some unpleasantness.

I have had some great experiences with DIR divers as well. We compared notes and agreed to disagree in a friendly manner and both divers learned from the other. That is the way that it is meant to be.

The gear config. is a classic example. It doesn't kill a diver early on to have a gauge clipped off to the wrong D-Ring. My instructors will let you experiment. Then you come to the conclusion (after building experience) that you don't like it there and clip it somewhere else.

Hogarthian rig still implies an open mind. DIR can mean that, but typically the diver will seen other techniques first to keep that said open mind and that takes time in the water. I had a friend who is not confident in his diving because of the DIRf course that he took. In the short length of the course, the instructors (and I didn't ask which ones) managed to convince him that he couldn't dive worth anything, but they didn't have time to rebuild the diver after they tore him apart to finish the training (something that the military recognizes as essential in boot camp. They have it in the training schedule to spend six or seven weeks tearing you down and another one to two weeks to allow you to be "rebuilt"). He now has almost no confidence in the water, simply because he couldn't dive on a weekend as well as his GUE instructors would have liked.

I just prefer a more flexible approach to doing things and for the most part, GUE does not appear to offer that.

Hence you have harnesses and equipment configurations that can be Hogarthian, but not DIR. The other thing to keep in mind is that the orginal question was on equipment. DIR does include far more factors than equipment in it the system.

 

[Uncle Pug]

I like GUE, but not DIR. As someone once said, "Read the Good Book, but beware the preacher handing out the plate."

After a day out on and under the water yesterday I just couldn't stay up and jabber with you folks.

Dan, your above statement doesn't make sense but it does reveal how little you really know about GUE or DIR.... less than zero.

DIR is the "message" and GUE is the "preacher". I could explain that even further but I think some folks would like to get back to the discussing the thread topic.

Hog is an equipment configuration philosophy. DIR is a prescriptive and expanded implementation of a philosophy that goes beyond equipment configuration and configures the diver and the diving as well.

 

[cornfed]

I had a friend who is not confident in his diving because of the DIRf course that he took. In the short length of the course, the instructors (and I didn't ask which ones) managed to convince him that he couldn't dive worth anything, but they didn't have time to rebuild the diver after they tore him apart to finish the training (something that the military recognizes as essential in boot camp. They have it in the training schedule to spend six or seven weeks tearing you down and another one to two weeks to allow you to be "rebuilt"). He now has almost no confidence in the water, simply because he couldn't dive on a weekend as well as his GUE instructors would have liked.

That's actually one of my critisisms of DIR-F, that is the course seems to breed quarry divers. It's the first time that many people have been seriously challenged in a dive class. Not only that but they are forced to meet that challenge and are not just given a pat on back for giving it a good try. After the ego bruising most people seem to get they feel they need to practice, practice and practice until they, well.. get it right.

Somewhere along the road the idea of going diving has gotten lost. People seem to forget why they got into diving and why they took DIR-F. Now I should mention that my views could be way off because they're based on a small group of people around here. But none the less, I see a lot of people training to make everything exactly perfect but not doing a lot of diving otherwise.

 

[GrierHPharmD]

Somewhere along the road the idea of going diving has gotten lost. People seem to forget why they got into diving and why they took DIR-F. Now I should mention that my views could be way off because they're based on a small group of people around here. But none the less, I see a lot of people training to make everything exactly perfect but not doing a lot of diving otherwise.

I know what you mean. Makes you want to go out and buy one of those "Shut Up and Dive" t-shirts...

For the record, I dive Hog but not DIR. (I love my DR Transplate too much and can't afford to buy new computer and gauges.) I've read the DIRF book and watched the DIR3 streaming video and think that there's a lot of good info there, but it's a little too dogmatic for my tastes.

I agree with the whole idea of trial and error with regard to minimalist gear configurations. Who knows, maybe when I'm at dive 1000 or so, I might just be completely DIR-compliant!

Safe ascents,
Grier

 

[IceDiverInCA]

DIR is the "message" and GUE is the "preacher".

I thought GUE was separating themselves from the term "DIR"?