NACD Instructor standards violation

[karstdvr]

I seem to recall an incident where an instructor took a non full cave diver to the castle once before on air and it didn't turn out so well. I know we've gotten to a point where the IUCRR doesn't feel it necessary to publish accidents any longer, but as a community are we ignoring the past?

January 5th,2005. Yep didn't turn out too good

 

[Omisson]

I seem to recall an incident where an instructor took a non full cave diver to the castle once before on air and it didn't turn out so well. I know we've gotten to a point where the IUCRR doesn't feel it necessary to publish accidents any longer, but as a community are we ignoring the past?

I'm sure the IUCRR would love to publish reports- if they weren't incurring liability from an overbearing set of federal and state regulations and the routine threat of lawsuits.

That you phrased it this way shows you know jack-****e about what's going on.

 

[nakatomi]

I seem to recall an incident where an instructor took a non full cave diver to the castle once before on air and it didn't turn out so well.

This is from memory, but the diver who perished in Peacock III back in 2005 was not cave certified, merely cavern certified.
I also believe there was a team separation and total loss of supervision in the cave, which lead to the deceased making a navigational error leading to his death.

As a result I don't think a comparison to the training examples discussed in this thread makes much sense.

 

[PfcAJ]

This is from memory, but the diver who perished in Peacock III back in 2005 was not cave certified, merely cavern certified.
I also believe there was a team separation and total loss of supervision in the cave, which lead to the deceased making a navigational error leading to his death.

As a result I don't think a comparison to the training examples discussed in this thread makes much sense.

hmmm... Sounds like the diver wasn't trained to deal with cave navigation. Sorta like how an intro diver isn't trained to deal with cave navigation.

 

[BabyDuck]

Why not use open water to get the depth? Yeah it means a trip to 40 Fathom junkyard or the ocean, but there is no issue of being in overhead with restrictions.

if i remember correctly, this was during the time 40 fathom was closed. and i really didn't want trip after trip after trip of getting blown out, i wanted to actually do the class. larry scheduled mix *and traveled to florida from virginia* three times before actually getting the dives in.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

There seems to be some confusion about the role of the IUCRR. The IUCRR is a public safety diving organization that exists to aid law enforcement and make rescues or recoveries in caves and other environments that might be beyond the training of local public safety and emergency response dive teams. Because it has a very niche role the organization may be requested by any LEO or PSD/ERD team worldwide. It is not a cave incident/accident record-keeping and reporting organization. Recoveries performed by the IUCRR are recorded and reported solely for law enforcement. Reports should be filled out "Just the facts, ma'am," style with information that may help investigators piece together what happened. Determining the scenario is the role of the LEO. Date of the accident and recovery, location of victim(s), status and inventory of equipment and status of the body or bodies of the decedent(s), and experience of decedent(s) is all that should be in a report. No speculation. No report of the conclusion of the LEO investigators. The organization exists simply to prevent another fatality during a recovery by sending in a team trained to safely reach the victim(s) rather than place a PSD or ERD team at risk.

 

[PfcAJ]

IUCRR should operate on the basis of if they do a recovery the deets get posted to their website.

If if some law enforcement agency objects they can send their own people in there.

 

[Hetland]

IUCRR should operate on the basis of if they do a recovery the deets get posted to their website.

If if some law enforcement agency objects they can send their own people in there.

Incident reports are typically public information (the first page anyway). The rest of the report could be obtained by a foia request. You might have some redaction of personal information, but I'm assuming you could get the report that they submitted to the death investigator.

 

[PfcAJ]

And that's ok, I guess, but no ones doing it. I fail to see how if its foia stuff why it can't be posted. Yanno, freedom. Of info.

it doesn't really affect the people currently in the sport. Fact is that we get the info one way or another. But 5 years from now some new cave diver won't have the opportunity to learn from it.

 

[karstdvr]

This is from memory, but the diver who perished in Peacock III back in 2005 was not cave certified, merely cavern certified.
I also believe there was a team separation and total loss of supervision in the cave, which lead to the deceased making a navigational error leading to his death.

As a result I don't think a comparison to the training examples discussed in this thread makes much sense.

Makes total sense, this was a deep class with Hendleys being used as the source of depth. There was separation between the student and instructor, because the student went down the old main line. One has to think that if this class was performed in open water versus the instructor having him exceed his certification level,then perhaps that accident wouldn't have happened. Look at this scenario from another stand point,but add the OP situation. Intro diver, who with an instructor can technically dive one level above their training goes to Hendley's for the deep part of the class. There is separation of student and instructor, so at this point the student returns to an intro level, and has to use skills they have not really learned to make a self exit.