My own equipment not allowed for Open Water class?

[ktchan]

Q. What's the student to teacher ratio?
A. 16 students to 1 teacher

Holy crap. One of these days, something unexpected is going to happen, whether gear or medical issue etc. and the instructor misses it because they're busy with another student and the person's going to die as a result.

 

[Pipehorse]

That's a fair assessment of the situation, but please point out where I'm wrong. What's the argument for jacket BCDs? What's the argument for short hose and octo donation? I'm not saying there isn't one, I'm saying from my research so far, I haven't read any compelling ones. But since you have a lot of dives under your belt, I'm truly curious as to your thoughts on this.

As for filing a complaint with PADI, I again don't see how I was in the wrong. Some people only learn when their hand is smacked.

And yes, I will look around for a private instructor. Actual money was never the issue, I just like to get what I pay for.

You don't know what you don't know, that's how your wrong (BTW you said that yourself). You are putting the cart before horse, worrying about equipment configurations when you haven't taken a single breathe on SCUBA. Its like you decided you want to learn to fly, and want skip to instrumentation panel layout in a GS650, never having even sat in Cessna 172, never mind flown one. You can watch 10,000 hours of youtube, and read every post ever written in Scubaboard, its all mute until you actually get in the water.

As far as bp/w versus jacket bcd, you are getting into an Apple vs. Windows, Betamax vs. VHS, and Dodge Truck vs. Ford Truck argument. And you have come down on the bp/w bcd side of things because joe shmoe on scubaboard has made up his mind about it, instead of making up your own mind about it.

I bet dollars to donuts the shop owner doesn't get his hand smacked by PADI.

So going back to original post here

Am I overthinking this?

Yes you are.

Would you buy your own equipment and go PADI, or go SSI with rented equipment for the first class, and then buy your own?

So the PADI shop is a no go. Just go with SSI and rented equipment. Get the OW cert and then start worrying about equipment configurations. Good luck, hope it turns out to be a great experience for you.

 

[MichaelMc]

I think one might read about different aircraft (BCs) used in training and decide you like some better than others. As you might read about different approaches to teaching and decide one sounds better.

They are not suggesting they learn on the most advanced CCR.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I think one might read about different aircraft (BCs) used in training and decide you like some better than others. As you might read about different approaches to teaching and decide one sounds better.

They are not suggesting they learn on the most advanced CCR.

I had an experience flight in a 2-seater helicopter last night. The instructor took care of the taking off/landing of course. I got to give it a go a bit. He said that if you can fly that helicopter as it is so small and the controls so sensitive, you can fly anything.

I think a better analogy is driving. Do you take lessons in a model-T or a modern car? The OP is perfectly reasonable in his preference. I'd place a large wager that he's going to be happy with his choice of equipment configuration.

 

[rx7diver]

... So without dipping a toe in the water, you have decided that jacket style bcds are not for you, that you need to have a long hose for the octopus, that you need to learn trim and buoyancy before everybody in a multi person class, and you are already filing complaints against shop owners with PADI.

Perhaps you should pursue finding a private instructor at private rates.

+1.

OP, FWIW, I have several recreational gear configurations. Love them all.

My oldest configuration uses my Scubapro Stab Jacket BC + AIR 2 and Mk 10 + Balanced Adjustable regulator on a standard, 32" hose--which is almost exactly the same gear I certified in in 1987. (And my college student daughter certified a couple of weeks ago here in MO/AR using this very same gear, and dove with it for a week in Roatan for a couple of days immediately afterward.) It is a solid configuration. Love this configuration.

My newest configurations use a back plate and wings. They are solid configurations, too. Love these configurations, too.

I was taught on my knees--well, crawling around on my knees on the bottom of the pool, sometimes in a blackout mask, sometimes experiencing sudden "stressors" that left me without air and dealing with equipment "issues", when I wasn't doing a lot of lap swimming and skin-diving skills.

My recommendation to you is to lake a scuba course taught by an experienced, competent, safe instructor. This instructor might be affiliated with an LDS, or not. Get your learner's permit C-card first, and then build up your own scuba competency gradually, over time, by going diving with skilled divers. Save your laundry list of preferred equipment and preferred skills for later, after you are certified.

Good Luck,

rx7diver

 

[Horgh]

For what it's worth, I just spoke to ScubaVentures in Bir

You don't know what you don't know, that's how your wrong (BTW you said that yourself). You are putting the cart before horse, worrying about equipment configurations when you haven't taken a single breathe on SCUBA. Its like you decided you want to learn to fly, and want skip to instrumentation panel layout in a GS650, never having even sat in Cessna 172, never mind flown one. You can watch 10,000 hours of youtube, and read every post ever written in Scubaboard, its all mute until you actually get in the water.

As far as bp/w versus jacket bcd, you are getting into an Apple vs. Windows, Betamax vs. VHS, and Dodge Truck vs. Ford Truck argument. And you have come down on the bp/w bcd side of things because joe shmoe on scubaboard has made up his mind about it, instead of making up your own mind about it.

Your two comparisons don't really align, namely IFR in a GS650 compared to basic lessons in a Cessna isn't the same as Ford vs Chevy, unless you're talking lap records in a Ford GT40 at Le Mans vs a hauling hay in a Chevy pickup on a Saturday afternoon.

In any case, how about we use an analogy that actually relates to me, namely motorcycles? I've been riding regularly for over 15 years, I have easily 100K+ road commuting miles under my belt in Seattle traffic year round, and even more if you count recreational rides. I've seen and ridden it all, downpours, snow, hail, steep uphills in stop-and-go, slippery old street downhills, manhole covers and trolley tracks in the rain, etc., so I'd argue I'm very experienced. Before I bought my first bike, I did a ton of research (that's my nature) and had my mind made up about what bike I wanted, but then I listened to the "experienced sales guy" and bought the bike he recommended (that his shop happened to carry). It was good, but I eventually sold it and bought the bike I actually wanted and realized that I would have been better off buying it in the first place. Not only because it was more aligned with my riding style, but also because it was easier to learn on despite what the sales guy and some misinformed people on the internet said. The two bikes were similar, both had two wheels, handlebars, etc., but there were differences in weight, balance and handling. The cumulative opinion of the owners of the bike I should have bought were correct all along because they owned the bike and had experience with it. That's why I originally listened to them.

Despite numerous personal and situational differences, people tend to come to accurate conclusions when you consider a large enough sample set, you just have to be willing to spend the time to research the topic, as well as topics related to it, to see all angles. You also have to be intelligent enough to filter out the trash. To that point, most people here tend to agree that a BP/W setup is more stable in the water, simpler (less failure points), obviously more modular, and thus more configurable to specific tasks. You see plenty reef diving in a BP/W, but show me people cave diving in a jacket BCD. Maybe there are and I just didn't find those examples, but I have a feeling there aren't many. Why? For the reasons I just mentioned, and those are the reasons that attract me to the BP/W configuration. If it's really Ford vs Chevy, then why do you and the instructor care which I choose? I see them as significantly different, though.

I bet dollars to donuts the shop owner doesn't get his hand smacked by PADI.

And that will say more about PADI than about him.

 

[formernuke]

Something to bear in mind SB represents a small portion of divers and a larger percentage of us are tech/cave or heavily influenced by them.

Go to most dive travel places and count the number of bpw you will be shocked.

I'm not saying to not get one, I'm also not saying to get one. I do recommend to not decide till you try all options.

Lots of used gear with only a couple dives because the knew what wanted when they started and then realized not fir them.

Recreational diving in about individual preferences.

 

[MichaelMc]

Go to most dive travel places and count the number of bpw you will be shocked

This really is not a good argument.

It is an argument that that gear is sufficient for some type of diving.
(and by type I mean the diving those people are doing, many of whom are not doing a very good job at it.)
It is not an argument that it is very good in general.

Look at the knives (BCs) in most kitchens (dive sites) and you would be amazed that they are not the same as those recommended in cooking (diving) forums, by those who endlessly discuss cooking (diving) and all its equipment.

 

[formernuke]

No it is a statement that they all work.

I'm not an advocate for any style. I'm an advocate for what each diver is most comfortable in.

 

[MichaelMc]

is an argument that that gear is sufficient for some type of diving

A beat up pickup is sufficient for getting groceries.
A Miata is likely better, and more fun.