My own equipment not allowed for Open Water class?

[James79]

If I take the OW class with rented equipment, pass, and want to keep diving, but hate the jacket BC (which is very likely), and buy my own long hose regs and BP/W, I will be left to my own devices to learn to use them safely. In other words, when/where/how could I then switch to my own gear under the supervision of said instructor?

As @Marie13 mentioned, BPW is really just another back inflate BCD. Spend a little time in a pool getting it adjusted right, and some simple buoyancy and trim checks, and you're good to go.... No instructor necessary.
As for long hose.... Since you are at initial OW training and any restrictions that make a true (7 foot) long hose necessary are far in the future, I would recommend what some call a "streamlined open water" arrangement. I do primary donate with a 48 inch hose that runs under my right arm to a 70 degree elbow on the second stage, with a necklaced alternate. No messing with the loop behind your neck of "true" long hose, but still gives more standoff than traditional recreational reg sets and keeps all the benefits of primary donate. Just practice OOA drills regularly with your dive buddy (like we all should anyway) and make sure any insta-buddies know you use primary donate.

Respectfully,

James

 

[Marie13]

Calm down, that's not at all what I meant or said. I'm happy to pay for one-on-one instructor time if that's the setup and expectation. I was talking about finding a recreational partner who wants to go diving on the weekends, and that it would be good to find someone more experienced who could mentor me at the same time. That's what I do with new dirt bike riders who I bring along with my group on enduro trails.

 

[MichaelMc]

Yeah. Skip the 7' hose for a while, go with 4 or 5'. BP/W is not rocket science. Just give yourself some time to sort it out.

After settling into the BP/W with the shorter hose, a common way to solve the 7' and snorkel issue is to put the snorkel in a pocket. On your body or in your gear bag is up to you.

 

[SlugLife]

That was the point of me starting this thread, there is a significant additional cost. They supply the BC, regulators, computer and air, the students have to buy the other items (wetsuit, DSMB, mask, snorkel, fins, etc.), which is all fine by me. However, they supply those things for the pool session only. To complete the OW part, it's an additional $275 to rent the regs, BC and computer. That's where I have an issue with this business model, because I'd rather put that $275 towards my own equipment.

This is a very long thread and I appreciate all the discussion. Many valid points have been made, the one that has stuck with me is the regulator drills along with having a snorkel, because I can see why a long hose would present an extra challenge. However, another question was raised that I didn't see answered, and it is this...

If I take the OW class with rented equipment, pass, and want to keep diving, but hate the jacket BC (which is very likely), and buy my own long hose regs and BP/W, I will be left to my own devices to learn to use them safely. In other words, when/where/how could I then switch to my own gear under the supervision of said instructor?

The only options I see are to either A) pay for and take the next class or B) go diving with some instructor. I was really hoping to get some real dives under my belt before I take the next class, because certs mean nothing to me if I don't have the right amount of experience practicing at each step of the ladder. So going from rented equipment to my own equipment ON MY OWN seems like a potential recipe for trouble. I'd rather do so under the eye of someone who knows what they're doing in a controlled environment.

In an ideal world I'd quickly find a diving partner who was also an instructor and could be a mentor, but I don't know the reality of that actually happening around here.

A few notes:

Holy crap at that equipment-rental price. Shop around. Some shop in your area will likely have an open-water class, which includes equipment (excluding mask, fins, snorkel) for the duration of the class. Without getting too deep into the dive-agency discussion, you can always switch dive-agencies after open-water. I too have reservations about their business-model, at least in this context.

Hoses are easy to swap. You'll want to first get them "hand tight" and then with a small wrench or tool, make them a little more than hand-tight. (I've had a regulator-hose come undone under-water because it was hand-tight ... not fun).

I don't think you'll hate the jacket BCD, people rarely "hate" it. It's more that the jacket BCD is less-than-optimal, or not as good as the backplate BCDs for most divers looking to go beyond casual-diving.

Switching from a jacket-BCD to backplate BCD is relatively straight forward. Usually the only major difference is that there tends to also be a crotch-strap, and backplate BCDs don't have weight-pockets. You probably don't need formal education of any sort to go from a rental-BCD, to a backplate setup. It may be good though to have an experienced diver (doesn't have to be an instructor) look over your equipment though before you hop in the water with it. Something else I do when testing, trying, or learning new equipment is to be in waist-to-chest high water, and test the equipment there.

Calm down, that's not at all what I meant or said. I'm happy to pay for one-on-one instructor time if that's the setup and expectation. I was talking about finding a recreational partner who wants to go diving on the weekends, and that it would be good to find someone more experienced who could mentor me at the same time. That's what I do with new dirt bike riders who I bring along with my group on enduro trails.

Your best-bet (aside from paying for private instruction), is to look for any local diver meetups. There are a few that happen in my area, some are connected to dive-shops, and they tend to show up at a local dive park with a $10 entrance fee. I generally ignore the dive-shop aspect, and just show up, and talk to divers. A good percentage of divers simply love diving, and will talk diving to anyone and everyone willing to listen, no matter your experience level.

If you ran into me at a dive-park, and presuming I'm just chilling between dives, I'd be more than happy to talk, answer questions, look over your equipment, offer suggestions, etc. Even though I mostly solo-dive; I almost never turn down a buddy-dive request and will happily take any dive as slow or easy as the partner needs.

 

[dentnshell]

My local SSI shop charges $315 for the course ( includes a 15% discount on basic gear for 30 days.) You must provide your own mask snorkel and fins ( doesn't matter where you buy them, but they are happy to sell them to you.). Other than that the $315 includes MOST other gear and tanks / fills ( including a wetsuit and hood if needed, Boots and Gloves not included.)

I went along with my wife while she got hers, I rented two tanks, a wetsuit, BC, Regs, weight for just under $100 for the two days we were at the lake for the OW portion. I did my SSI refresher for $75 which included two days of equipment at the pool.

If you really want SSI. I understand, but know that SSI requires all instructors be tied to a shop. If they are an independent instructor they are most likely PADI. I agree with finding a PADI and doing advanced later. We did the opposite. My wife did SSI, I was NAUI from years ago. We recently did PADI advanced on vacation. So now we are PADI advanced, and will most likely do SSI Advanced Air/Nitrox.

As long as you are not on a path to become an instructor PADI and SSI crossover and play very nicely with each other.
Sounds to me like your dive shop is making all their money of new people. As you shop around you might find that you end up not using them for any equipment as they sound to be very overpriced.

 

[Horgh]

There is a PADI shop in my area, that's the other shop I was referencing, and it's definitely on my radar. Not only are they ok with me brining my equipment, but there are also no additional rental fees for the OW portion of the class from what I can tell. I'll call them again today to discuss details.

I'd be fine to take the OW class with a "standard" hose setup, that's basically an additional $50 in hoses to convert them to long hose later, which isn't a problem. I would, however, prefer to take the class in a BP/W, so we'll see what the instructor says.

Speaking of... I think that if I get my certification, my next step will be to hire a local dive guide to show me around the various diving spots around here over a number of weekends, that would let me switch to my own gear and help me build confidence under a watchful eye.

 

[Boarderguy]

There is a PADI shop in my area, that's the other shop I was referencing, and it's definitely on my radar. Not only are they ok with me brining my equipment, but there are also no additional rental fees for the OW portion of the class from what I can tell. I'll call them again today to discuss details.

I'd be fine to take the OW class with a "standard" hose setup, that's basically an additional $50 in hoses to convert them to long hose later, which isn't a problem. I would, however, prefer to take the class in a BP/W, so we'll see what the instructor says.

Speaking of... I think that if I get my certification, my next step will be to hire a local dive guide to show me around the various diving spots around here over a number of weekends, that would let me switch to my own gear and help me build confidence under a watchful eye.

Check out local dive clubs. They are usually easy enough to find on social media and they have weekly or monthly group dives. That's one of the cheapest ways to dive your local areas with an experienced buddy. Your padi shop may also do shop dives and that gives more access to buddies and knowledge. Get wet and blow bubbles as often as you can with people who know the area and will be a good example/help you out as needed.

 

[SlugLife]

There is a PADI shop in my area, that's the other shop I was referencing, and it's definitely on my radar. Not only are they ok with me brining my equipment, but there are also no additional rental fees for the OW portion of the class from what I can tell. I'll call them again today to discuss details.

That sounds like a great deal! If the shop has good reviews, I say go for it.

I'd be fine to take the OW class with a "standard" hose setup, that's basically an additional $50 in hoses to convert them to long hose later, which isn't a problem. I would, however, prefer to take the class in a BP/W, so we'll see what the instructor says.

7ft flex-hose for $31 USD:

Regulator Double Braided Flex Hose

Our double braided flex low pressure regulator hoses are kink resistant and made specifically for scuba diving with chromed brass fittings.

www.divegearexpress.com

Rubber, also $31:

Regulator Rubber Hose

Our rubber low pressure regulator hoses are made specifically for scuba diving with chromed brass fittings.

www.divegearexpress.com

DivegGearExpress is great, prepare to empty your wallet there on equipment!

As far as the extra standard-length regulator hose, keep it as a spare. It's not really a waste to have an extra regulator-hose on hand.

 

[Chavodel8en]

There is a PADI shop in my area, that's the other shop I was referencing, and it's definitely on my radar. Not only are they ok with me brining my equipment, but there are also no additional rental fees for the OW portion of the class from what I can tell. I'll call them again today to discuss details.

I'd be fine to take the OW class with a "standard" hose setup, that's basically an additional $50 in hoses to convert them to long hose later, which isn't a problem. I would, however, prefer to take the class in a BP/W, so we'll see what the instructor says.

Speaking of... I think that if I get my certification, my next step will be to hire a local dive guide to show me around the various diving spots around here over a number of weekends, that would let me switch to my own gear and help me build confidence under a watchful eye.

Sounds like a good plan to me. I've always thought of the initial OW as a license to learn. If we are not willing to pay much higher fees (and I was not), then we are going to get economy-of-volume training, with an instructor looking to churn out several OW students at a time. It will not be perfect.

I was not an excellent diver after OW, but I learned enough not to kill myself. If I recall correctly, I was using 30+ lbs of lead, lol. Eventually, just by going diving with experienced buddies, my weighting improved, my buoyancy improved. I got myself into a back-inflate. And i had lots of fun learning.

Also, check to see if there is a facebook scuba page or group, or a Meetup.com scuba group in your diving area to find buddies. I am lucky enough to live near a prime scuba location, so there are lots of buddies. there may be a few in your area.

 

[Horgh]

So interesting turn of events with the PADI shop. I called to ask some questions, namely ones you guys recommended I ask, as well as some recommended by the Divers Ready! YouTube channel. I spoke to (on the phone) with the guy who sold me my mask, snorkel and boots, and who told me he was the main instructor before the instructor who teaches now. In store he wasn't very attentive, but I don't mind the "let the customer take their time" approach.

I asked him the following questions:

Q. What's the student to teacher ratio?
A. 16 students to 1 teacher

Q. Do you teach neutrally buoyant?
A. No, because it makes things too complicated, we find it easier to teach students on their knees

Q. How much of buoyancy and trim do you then cover in the class?
A. Two drills, per the PADI standard

Q. Can I bring my own BC and regs, and would that be a problem for any of your skills?
A. Yes, you can, and no, assuming that it doesn't interfere with the class. <-- perfectly fine by me

Q. Do you teach anything beyond the PADI checklist?
A. No, that would be a violation of the rules.
Q. I didn't mean teach 120 ft diving in an OW class, I meant small things like gear overviews, additional trim and buoyancy exercises, things to make new divers more well rounded (this question is directly from the Divers Ready! video)
A. No, but we offer additional classes that offer those things.

Then the owner said to me, "Based on the questions you're asking, it would be better if you were trained by another shop, not us"

This really floored me, because I don't think I asked anything unreasonable and I wasn't confrontational, in fact I made sure to be polite and courteous throughout the conversation. I didn't even ask any of these questions until after we discussed me buying a Henderson wetsuit from them, and mentioning that I already purchased gear a few days before (so existing customer).

I asked why he would say that, and he said that I'm questioning their methods and teaching, and they've been teaching for over 40 years.

You know what? Screw everything about that. If that is a PADI 5-star shop, then I want nothing to do with PADI. I'll pay the $275 in rental fees just to stay the hell away from garbage people and garbage businesses. To treat someone who has money in hand and is asking some basic questions about a possibly dangerous sport, is absolutely unacceptable.

For those curious, the PADI shop in question is Southeastern Divers (Southeastern Divers, Inc.) in Huntsville, AL.