My own equipment not allowed for Open Water class?

[MichaelMc]

I said above, in the message you quote, that 7' hose likely need not be in the OW class. The complications are real of donating without knocking off the ever present OW snorkel and the mask it is connected to, and needing to restow. But a 5' hose does not have those issues.

My point was that many shops sell Air2. Those same shops very likely teach OW with it. Under the theme of 'take class in gear from our shop'. These shops are also very likely the same 'all standard traditional gear only' shops.

Given they likely teach with Air2, it It is hard to understand their basis for disapproving of a 5' primary donate and necklaced secondary.

I was not adocating for the Air2, as I feel air and buoyancy makes it problematic in an emergency.

I also get differences in remove/replace with a one piece harness. But a 'comfort adjustable' harness does not have those differences. It is just a BC partly made of metal that comes apart and uses less fabric.

 

[SlugLife]

This is something I've struggled with a bit as an instructor. In my personal diving, I prefer long hose donation, but when I teach OW, I teach my students in a standard rec configuration. I'd love a world where DIN valves and long hoses were the norm, but for the average OW diver, they aren't ever going to use or encounter a long hose. I have come down on the side of training my students the way they are going to be equipped.

That being said, if I had a student show up and ask to learn that way, I'd happily accommodate. There's a little more work for me, but at the end of the day, a long hose isn't hard to master, and regardless of what I'm using; if you spit out your regulator underwater, you are going to find my primary being shoved into your mouth.

That's a great attitude to have! As a student, I'll never turn down bonus learning, and I suppose as an instructor, I'd probably be willing to offer such info within reason and time-constraints. Since you mention it, I suppose I might take the approach of "hey, stay after class and lets go over long-hose!"

I was not adocating for the Air2, as I feel air and buoyancy makes it problematic in an emergency.

Got it! I think we're on the same page, just that I misread or misinterpreted your post. Such is the nature of online communication.

 

[formernuke]

This is something I've struggled with a bit as an instructor. In my personal diving, I prefer long hose donation, but when I teach OW, I teach my students in a standard rec configuration. I'd love a world where DIN valves and long hoses were the norm, but for the average OW diver, they aren't ever going to use or encounter a long hose. I have come down on the side of training my students the way they are going to be equipped.

That being said, if I had a student show up and ask to learn that way, I'd happily accommodate. There's a little more work for me, but at the end of the day, a long hose isn't hard to master, and regardless of what I'm using; if you spit out your regulator underwater, you are going to find my primary being shoved into your mouth.

Yup

 

[formernuke]

My point was that many shops sell Air2. Those same shops very likely teach OW with it. Under the theme of 'take class in gear from our shop'. These shops are also very likely the same 'all standard traditional gear only' shops.

Yup I know two that do. One was about to offer me a job until I told them I would use or teach in one, to me it's a safety issue. Surprised me that both are owned my tech instructors as well.

My only issue with long hose in OW is its the only class where there are required snorkel skills.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

I'm a bit torn. I know that if I like the "try SCUBA" I'm going to take many classes, dive a ton, with the eventual goal being tech diving and overhead environments.

Try the dive with their gear if there is no extra cost. Take note of the gear used. Evaluate your instructors' intuition.


Some of us are divers, some of us are posers, some of us cannot tell the difference.

 

[Horgh]

Try the dive with their gear if there is no extra cost. Take note of the gear used. Evaluate your instructors' intuition.


Some of us are divers, some of us are posers, some of us cannot tell the difference.

That was the point of me starting this thread, there is a significant additional cost. They supply the BC, regulators, computer and air, the students have to buy the other items (wetsuit, DSMB, mask, snorkel, fins, etc.), which is all fine by me. However, they supply those things for the pool session only. To complete the OW part, it's an additional $275 to rent the regs, BC and computer. That's where I have an issue with this business model, because I'd rather put that $275 towards my own equipment.

This is a very long thread and I appreciate all the discussion. Many valid points have been made, the one that has stuck with me is the regulator drills along with having a snorkel, because I can see why a long hose would present an extra challenge. However, another question was raised that I didn't see answered, and it is this...

If I take the OW class with rented equipment, pass, and want to keep diving, but hate the jacket BC (which is very likely), and buy my own long hose regs and BP/W, I will be left to my own devices to learn to use them safely. In other words, when/where/how could I then switch to my own gear under the supervision of said instructor?

The only options I see are to either A) pay for and take the next class or B) go diving with some instructor. I was really hoping to get some real dives under my belt before I take the next class, because certs mean nothing to me if I don't have the right amount of experience practicing at each step of the ladder. So going from rented equipment to my own equipment ON MY OWN seems like a potential recipe for trouble. I'd rather do so under the eye of someone who knows what they're doing in a controlled environment.

In an ideal world I'd quickly find a diving partner who was also an instructor and could be a mentor, but I don't know the reality of that actually happening around here.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

To complete the OW part, it's an additional $275 to rent the regs, BC and computer. That's where I have an issue with this business model, because I'd rather put that $275 towards my own equipment.

Go with the other option. Put your money to gear you prefer. The long hose can be replaced with a shorter hose while you are being OW trained.

 

[Marie13]

That was the point of me starting this thread, there is a significant additional cost. They supply the BC, regulators, computer and air, the students have to buy the other items (wetsuit, DSMB, mask, snorkel, fins, etc.), which is all fine by me. However, they supply those things for the pool session only. To complete the OW part, it's an additional $275 to rent the regs, BC and computer. That's where I have an issue with this business model, because I'd rather put that $275 towards my own equipment.

This is a very long thread and I appreciate all the discussion. Many valid points have been made, the one that has stuck with me is the regulator drills along with having a snorkel, because I can see why a long hose would present an extra challenge. However, another question was raised that I didn't see answered, and it is this...

If I take the OW class with rented equipment, pass, and want to keep diving, but hate the jacket BC (which is very likely), and buy my own long hose regs and BP/W, I will be left to my own devices to learn to use them safely. In other words, when/where/how could I then switch to my own gear under the supervision of said instructor?

The only options I see are to either A) pay for and take the next class or B) go diving with some instructor. I was really hoping to get some real dives under my belt before I take the next class, because certs mean nothing to me if I don't have the right amount of experience practicing at each step of the ladder. So going from rented equipment to my own equipment ON MY OWN seems like a potential recipe for trouble. I'd rather do so under the eye of someone who knows what they're doing in a controlled environment.

In an ideal world I'd quickly find a diving partner who was also an instructor and could be a mentor, but I don't know the reality of that actually happening around here.

Expecting an instructor to dive with you and mentor you sounds like you’re hoping to get training for free.

Switching to a BP/W doesn’t require any great skill. Seems many have issues getting the harness adjusted properly, but that’s about it. You’re not likely to have many issues with the long hose.

Find some shallow water like a pool/quarry/lake and a buddy with a GoPro.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

I was really hoping to get some real dives under my belt before I take the next class, because certs mean nothing to me if I don't have the right amount of experience practicing at each step of the ladder. So going from rented equipment to my own equipment ON MY OWN seems like a potential recipe for trouble.

Good divers can use any equipment with a little tweaking. That's part and parcel of having dive experience.

If I take the OW class with rented equipment, pass, and want to keep diving, but hate the jacket BC (which is very likely), and buy my own long hose regs and BP/W, I will be left to my own devices to learn to use them safely. In other words, when/where/how could I then switch to my own gear under the supervision of said instructor?

Cross that river when you arrive. Most dive shops will brief you on your purchase unless it's online. It's up to you to train in shallow water before attempting deeper dives with different configurations.

 

[Horgh]

Expecting an instructor to dive with you and mentor you sounds like you’re hoping to get training for free.

Calm down, that's not at all what I meant or said. I'm happy to pay for one-on-one instructor time if that's the setup and expectation. I was talking about finding a recreational partner who wants to go diving on the weekends, and that it would be good to find someone more experienced who could mentor me at the same time. That's what I do with new dirt bike riders who I bring along with my group on enduro trails.