My own equipment not allowed for Open Water class?

[kaylee_ann]

@Skunky,

I think exceptions exist for students who are renting to go on their open water checkout. If there is a problem, the student should have his/her instructor contact the shop.

rx7diver

Yep. For my OW, I rented from the shop at the dive site. It was listed as a "student rental", I believe.

 

[mdwalter]

This is definitely part of what I'm looking for, as I want to work on my buoyancy and trim as early as possible. Is there a way to ask the instructor about this? Would I literally say "do you teach neutrally buoyant" and expect them to know what I'm asking about?

Yes, that's a valid question and if they don't know what you're talking about, you want to find a better instructor who does.

 

[mdwalter]

I have my own compressor and fill.station, ordered over the net/phone. Cost around 7k.

I too have my own compressor. I bought it on eBay for $1600, then built my own mixing stick, oxygen and helium tanks, and analyzer. That added about another $1400. Getting certified to VIP my own tanks was $300 and the renewal every 3 years is $75. My RoI on all this was about 3 years of making my own nitrox and trimix and I now have no need of that LDS who will soon go out of business because I've been buying all my kit used on eBay for the past 20 years.

 

[rx7diver]

Yep. For my OW, I rented from the shop at the dive site. It was listed as a "student rental", I believe.

My daughter had no problem renting two Al 80's (and a wetsuit and solid Pb weights) from our LDS this past May for her open water checkout. But the LDS owner is a longtime personal friend of mine, and my name is on the credit card, so I wasn't sure if any of this played a part.

ETA: Just remembered: Several other students from my daughter's univ scuba course rented their full gear (including regulators and BC's) from this same LDS.

rx7diver

 

[kaylee_ann]

My daughter had no problem renting two Al 80's (and a wetsuit and solid Pb weights) from our LDS this past May for her open water checkout. But the LDS owner is a longtime personal friend of mine, and my name is on the credit card, so I wasn't sure if any of this played a part.

rx7diver

My instructor knew the shop owners pretty well, so no problem there for a similar reason.

 

[Bigbella]

When I first began, it was with the YMCA, and they provided everything, including masks (no snorkels, if I recall, were ever used in that OW class) -- the only exception being the wetsuits, which we had to rent or buy, for the ocean dives. Pool sessions only required swim trunks.

The regulators were a mixed bunch, chosen at random from an old plastic laundry basket. What was unique back then was that there was never any sales pitch when it came to eventually buying your own gear, since the "Y" was never directly associated with any shop.

Fast forward a few decades, now with alphabet-soup agencies and sectarianism, up the wazoo, I ran into a college instructor -- presumably some GUE cultist -- who wished to argue with me about the safety of my niece's upstream regulators, which she received for high school graduation.

Crap, so much has become increasingly granular in recent years. I never thought I would ever have to justify a regulator design, to some CSU twit, with a massive hog ring in his nose . . .

 

[mdwalter]

Yeah. Skip the 7' hose for a while, go with 4 or 5'. BP/W is not rocket science. Just give yourself some time to sort it out.

After settling into the BP/W with the shorter hose, a common way to solve the 7' and snorkel issue is to put the snorkel in a pocket. On your body or in your gear bag is up to you.

Another good way to deal with the snorkel problem is don't have a snorkel.

 

[mdwalter]

I didn't mishear it. I actually asked about the class size and was told "this time of the year, 16" so then I asked "and how many instructors?" expecting the answer to be 2 or more... I was told 1.

I'm waiting for a call back from PADI customer relations. I'm going scorched earth.

16:1... run for your life!

 

[steinbil]

That is exactly the point... how did I get to this board? What got me interested in diving? As I said in my original post, it was by watching the analysis of and commentary on cave diving and wreck penetration videos, both good and bad. I've devoured a lot overhead environment content and it really drew my attention and sparked this interest. The science, the techniques, the equipment. That is why I'd like to start with gear that is aimed at that type of diving. I have nothing against fish, they're pretty, diving some reefs would be cool, but that is not my ultimate interest. I realize technical diving is a long, long ways off, but I'd rather drive a sports car on the street than take a Prius to a race track.

People get into all kinds of sports and hobbies with different goals, some with "professional" aspirations, especially at a younger age. Only a select few make it to those levels, but that doesn't mean the rest shouldn't enjoy trying, and buying whatever equipment makes them happy doing so. I hope that I enjoy my Try SCUBA session, I hope that I get my OW certificate, and I hope that I live long enough and get enough real diving experience during that time to one day, MAYBE, just maybe be good enough and experienced enough to take a cave diving course and see some of those wonderous places with my own two eyes. But if I fall short of that goal, that's ok, I can still enjoy my tech setup in a shallow quarry or floating along a reef.

Haven't read the full thread, but I read your OP and a few of your responses, and I thought I might add my 2 cents to see if it resonates with you.

First of all, I'm similar to you in that I like to do my own research, I like planning ahead, and I like buying it once and getting good quality. I was in a similar situation last year, and after watching several scuba related videos online, Dive Talk among them, as well as loving the water/ocean since I was a kid, I decided to pursue my OW certificate. After tons of research online, I figured out I wanted to go the BP/W + long hose ("DIR") way and contacted a local GUE instructor. Because of logistical and scheduling issues, I was not able to do a GUE rec 1 class without waiting several months to start, so the instructor recommended a PADI instructor who happened to also be a GUE diver. Since PADI instructors can teach/certify divers independently, I was able to get the instructor to organize a class just for me. (With SSI I believe the instructor has to be affiliated with a dive shop that runs the classes). I took the PADI OW class in BP/W with a long hose and steel doubles (7L) with Nitrox, and a drysuit and learned all the PADI drills as well as practicing GUE basic drills, all neutral and in trim. The GUE instructor contacted a local DIR-minded and GUE-friendly dive shop that LENT me all the gear for my class free of charge - and they let me keep the gear 2 weeks after my class. I think this is standard practice with GUE classes around here also, but things might be different in the US. The service was so good I ended up buying almost all my gear from them later. I ended up with a no-name used backplate and a Halcyon wing that I love, but I've tried other donut wings that also work just fine (DirZone and Tecline). A lot of divers in these parts have Apex regs, so I went with that. It's good to have gear that can easily be serviced locally. Fast forward 1 year and I've completed my GUE Fundies, and am preparing for future Tech classes. I have also had a few dives in a normal jacket BC, and everything I've learned translates - the skills matter more than the gear, but I do prefer the BP/W setup I have and I think it's easier, safer, more flexible and more expandable. I wouldn't worry too much about the specific brands though.

I agree that learning to be neutral and in trim from the beginning is important. Get a good instructor. I also don't think you should be too concerned with buying gear and the brands you like before you take your class. You might even find out that diving is not for you after all, so hold off on getting the gear until you have your OW.

In summary:
- Contact a GUE instructor, the ones I have met have all been great and very helpful
- The instructor is important, get a good one that will teach you neutral/in trim, regardless of agency
- Getting instruction in the setup you want to dive is obviously preferable
- If you have to use a jacket BC/traditional rig for the class it's not the end of the world
- If you can, take the class before you buy your equipment, there's no rush
- The brand of BP/W is not crucial (but keep it simple, stick to a one-piece harness and a buckle)

 

[Superlyte27]

Hey all,

A while ago I found the Dive Talk channel and really became interested in diving (I realize people have split opinions on that channel, we don't need to discuss that here). I'm a Type A personality who soaks up knowledge on subjects he finds interesting, so I have been learning and researching a TON on various dive topics, from the science, to equipment, to procedures, etc. I have a pretty decent high-level understanding of a lot of topics now, which you could argue is good or bad, seeing how I've had no formal training yet.

So on that note, there are two shops in my area, one a PADI shop, and one SSI. I checked out both and signed up for a "try SCUBA" class with the SSI shop. However, the SSI shop then told me that for the Open Water class I have to use their equipment, either rented or bought from them. Their reason was "liability and insurance", though they did say that beyond the Open Water class I can use my own equipment. The PADI shop does not have a rule like that.

I'm a bit torn. I know that if I like the "try SCUBA" I'm going to take many classes, dive a ton, with the eventual goal being tech diving and overhead environments. I also believe in the "buy once, cry once" principle, as well as not having to re-learn stuff (muscle memory). As such, I wanted to purchase a Deep 6 "signature" DIR (long hose) regulator bundle right away, along with their Eddy fins, and start with a BP/W setup, likely the DGX package as it seems to fit my needs (Dive Rite XT package being my second choice). However, I wouldn't be able to take the Open Water class with those through this SSI shop, and I'd have to use a rented vest BCD and standard hose Aqualung regulator and octo.

From what I've read and heard, SSI would be the preferred agency to do my training as PADI has some issues (I don't want to start a flame war in this thread). So what do you experience divers think? Am I overthinking this? Would you buy your own equipment and go PADI, or go SSI with rented equipment for the first class, and then buy your own?

I don't know if the liability and insurance explanation is real or if it's a gimmick to lock me into products the shop carries, but if the latter, I question the ethics and values of said shop. I realize everyone needs to make money, but I was already willing to buy various big ticket items from them that they do carry (Shearwater computer, Henderson wetsuit(s), etc.) AND spend money on lots of training in the future. Let me know your thoughts, thanks!

For the record, as a guy who has insured with 2 out of the top 3 insurance agencies for scuba, is also an instructor, and oh yeah, owns one of the largest insurance agencies in the country, I can tell you the insurance requirement is a bunch of bologna.

Ask to see their exclusions page on their policy. Or just ask who their insurance company is, I probably have their exclusions page.

At any rate. I have a rule both personally and professionally. If someone lies to me, we’re done. I’m never doing any business with them ever. If one of my staff lies to anyone (co-worker, boss, client) they’re fired. I don’t care if you say she can’t take a phone call because your agent is in the bathroom and the real reason is that she’s just too busy.

With all that said, I would keep looking.