My Introduction to Sidemount Diving, as well as Training and Equipment Questions

[halocline]

I wouldn't buy any gear until you meet with Lexi (good choice on the instructor). I agree with rddvet on the regs, I dive in caves with MK10s (and other old SP regs) that I bought for less than $50 per stage and they work great. I service them myself for a few dollars when they need it, which is not that often. Regs have not gotten any better in decades, in fact in some ways they are worse. Spend a little time on the regulator forum and the DIY forum and you'll learn a lot. And probably save a lot of money.

The big question I would have for someone in your situation is why you want to go to sidemount at such an early stage in your development. No matter how dedicated or talented you are at diving, 35 dives is nowhere near enough dives to venture into overhead or technical diving in my opinion, and sidemount is really designed as a technical diving solution. It certainly won't hurt you or your development to take a class now, but I would suggest you continue with single tank diving for a long time. I know people do single tank sidemount, and maybe you can do that, but you might do better just diving and working on your basic dive skills in a single tank on your back. The issues of trim, buoyancy control, gas usage, situational awareness, propulsion, general control and judgement, are all VERY important in any type of diving.

I'm about to take a sidemount cave class at Under the Jungle (that's where I heard about Lexi) but I also have a thousand dives over decades, single tank and backmount doubles, in OW and in caves. I'm going to sidemount for specific reasons; because it will give me more access to specific passages in MX where I can't go now, will help to standardize diving with buddies down there (maybe 80-90% of cave divers in MX are using sidemount) and as I get older, I'm getting more tired of lugging 80lbs doubles up and down those stairs.

The GUE fundies class might be more useful for you at this time, or even just some dives with an excellent tech instructor who can mentor you on all the basic skill refinements every diver could improve on.

 

[TooManyHobbies]

I'm just wondering why you want to spend more on a mask than I have spent on a full set of used regs. The best mask I've ever used is $20 on DGX right now.

 

[Josh the diver]

I'm just wondering why you want to spend more on a mask than I have spent on a full set of used regs. The best mask I've ever used is $20 on DGX right now.

I agree, masks that expensive are full of gimmicks to increase price. You want something simple.

 

[OctoHelm]

I'm just wondering why you want to spend more on a mask than I have spent on a full set of used regs. The best mask I've ever used is $20 on DGX right now.

As my first set of gear, I want something that is a quality bit of kit. As the saying goes, "Buy once, cry once". If a used reg system is reliable, safe and still in good shape, I think that it might be a good idea to look into used regs. I have heard that they can be hit or miss as far as quality goes. I would not know the past owner, and then would not know how well or poorly they were taken care of. I have also heard good things about Atomic from my DI, as well as from one of my good friends who dives as well. I would be happy to look into used regs, but I do not think that they offer the same level of peace of mind as new regs do. With new regs, I know how they have been maintained, used and kept in good shape. With used regs, that is harder to figure out. That's not to say that used regs are horrible and have no place underwater - they certainly do - but I just want to know that what I have will work and continue to do so. If that can be assured with a used set of regs, that is fantastic.

If you don't already have a tech instructor to work with and develop the proper skills you are better off taking fundies now. Easier to learn the proper thing first than to break bad habits down the line.

I worked in a cabinet shop as my first job over the summer, and I work in my school's shop. Having more experience in the shop than in the water, I can attest to how it can be hard to break bad habits. That's why I always try to do things right. I can completely see how this translates to diving as well. Do you think that I should take it after I have been in the water for a few dives? Just so I can get back into the swing of things before going to take fundamentals. The buddy who I talked to on the phone said the same thing. He recommended that I go do fundies so I know what to expect when I come back with more experience. If I do take it, I think that I can expect a rec pass. With that rec pass and the experience of taking the class, I think that it will allow me to really know what is expected of me when I go to back and shoot for my tech pass. If I can build up good habits now, they pay dividends later down the road. It seems like a hard class, but nothing easy is worth doing.

The GUE fundies class might be more useful for you at this time, or even just some dives with an excellent tech instructor who can mentor you on all the basic skill refinements every diver could improve on.

With the GUE fundies, I am kinda split between taking sometime soon or if I should just dive and get experience first and then go to GUE fundamentals. If I take it, I think I will learn a lot and grow to understand what level of competence in and out of the water is to be expected on my entry into tech diving. I think that at this stage, I really just need to dive, and once I make a habit of getting out at least once every weekend, I think that my skills will improve. I think that I need to just dive and get back into the swing of things. Hell - I'm 16. The minimum age for fundies is 16, and the minimum age for Tech 1 is 18. I have time, and besides me wanting to progress, there is really no rush.

I agree, masks that expensive are full of gimmicks to increase price. You want something simple.

That is a smart point that I had not considered yet. Honestly, I think I might just go with the Atomic Subframe. It is less than half the cost when compared to the Venom ARC. Something simple is less likely to fail as well. I am sure that I can find a cheaper mask as well if need be.

Also, I have talked to some people, and I think that I will stick to manifolded doubles for my eventual tech training, and then head to sidemount if I really need it. When would the right time to buy doubles be? Renting does add up, but I still want to have time to explore and figure out what type of diving I really want to do. I think I want to go into caves, but I have never gone cave diving, so I cannot really speak to if I really want to though.

Good to know with the steel 72s. Down the road when I buy twins, would HP100s work well? Or do you think that I should look at manifolded HP80s instead? People say that the steel 72's are good cylinders as well.

Thank you all so much! This really has been so helpful to me! I really appreciate it!

Respectfully,

OctoHelm

 

[MichaelMc]

The key skills for tec are buoyancy, propulsion, trim, and breathing. You want to get squared away on those first. All of which you can master in single tank (or tiny sidemount.)

GUE fundamentals in a single tank now is a good idea. I would not worry about twins for now, they just add weight you do not need this early. You might contact one of the local tec instructors about doing an evaluation or mentoring dive with you. Basically an intro to tech lite. That will get you some hands on feedback early. Assuming Fundies is not something you can drop into next week.

I love sidemount for OW. It is very fun. But it does add complexity. Getting set up with Lexi would be the sidemount version of the above. (For sidemount, twins makes most sense, hence the recommendation for tiny ones.)

You could also do a check out with a DM that a local tec or GUE instructor recommends.

Some on the board refurbish and sell the classic used regulators people are talking about. Look in the vintage and self service sections. I have some of them, they work great. That would be a reliable way to get a reg set.

Fit is the prime criteria for a mask. My current mask is a Mako Minimus for $40 because it fits me well.

 

[OctoHelm]

Good to know, MichaelMc! Thanks you for replying! Good to hear about fundies in a single tank setup. It doesn't seem like that big of a shift from a single cylinder to two besides the weight difference. What do you think of your Mako mask? I hear good things about them from people on the board. Thank you again!

Respectfully,

OctoHelm

 

[MichaelMc]

I like my Mako mask. It is low volume with good field of view. Most of the single lens ones do not fit me well. For any mask I would get a neoprene 'slap strap' head band.

On tanks, you could dive tiny doubles now, LP50 or AL40. Their normal benefit is not capacity but redundancy in a compact single-tank weight package, and in your case a bit of familiarization. But they would add complexity. Not a lot but some just in the gear and getting it set up. And really the focus you need now is buoyancy, propulsion, trim and breathing.

Also tiny doubles are not likely something you could rent on travel. So you would need a single tank setup anyway. (That is one of sidemount's benefits, you can dive redundantly with any two tanks, as long as you are comfortable with the weight.) For tiny doubles, the DiveRite Rec wing is likely the way to go, which I have on mine. I'd still do fundies focused on rec pass only, pretending they were a single tank, or actually in single tank.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I do think that I will hopefully have 100 dives before I look at the GUE Fundamentals class.

I would suggest taking fundies sooner than later. I wish I took it right after open water. Don't worry about a rec/tec pass, just focus on improving your skills. This will transfer to any diving you do. I've been taking a bit of time off from diving (only internet diving for me lately), and I'll probably hire some of the local to me fundies instructors for workshops and possibly go for a tech pass. I dive SM in open water, hence I didn't go farther with my GUE training. But I think it would be a good idea for me to do that. Then also hire a local cave instructor (travels to Mexico) who dives/teaches on the Xdeep.

For sidemount harness, get a dedicated one. The Hollis Katana 2 is supposedly quite nice, allegedly better than the Xdeep (which I have and like, some people rouse about it though), and also the Razor (which is limited to what cylinders you can use - lots of BC SM divers use aluminum cylinders.

 

[OctoHelm]

I would suggest taking fundies sooner than later. I wish I took it right after open water. Don't worry about a rec/tec pass, just focus on improving your skills. This will transfer to any diving you do. I've been taking a bit of time off from diving (only internet diving for me lately), and I'll probably hire some of the local to me fundies instructors for workshops and possibly go for a tech pass.

This has pushed me over the edge. There is a fundies class in October near me. I will have my mom sign me up for it. I just need to figure out the logistics, and then I'm good! I am hoping to get my drysuit cert before I take fundies though. I don't think taking the class is about the "pass", as much as it is about the experience and knowledge that will make me a better diver. I want to get really confident in a BM single before moving to twins. I am planning on taking fundamentals again with doubles and then hopefully getting my tech pass. I just wish there was a fundies class in November; that would be optimal.

I think I want to go with GUE for my Tech 1 training when I turn 18. Their method of training seems like it would suit me better. For that reason, I think I will stick with backmounted twins.

Thank you so much for your reply!

Respectfully,

OctoHelm

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

This has pushed me over the edge. There is a fundies class in October near me. I will have my mom sign me up for it. I just need to figure out the logistics, and then I'm good! I am hoping to get my drysuit cert before I take fundies though. I don't think taking the class is about the "pass", as much as it is about the experience and knowledge that will make me a better diver. I want to get really confident in a BM single before moving to twins. I am planning on taking fundamentals again with doubles and then hopefully getting my tech pass. I just wish there was a fundies class in November; that would be optimal.

I think I want to go with GUE for my Tech 1 training when I turn 18. Their method of training seems like it would suit me better. For that reason, I think I will stick with backmounted twins.

Thank you so much for your reply!

Respectfully,

OctoHelm

Hey good luck! If the system works for you, you will just enjoy the course more. You WILL be a dramatically improved diver.

I’d suggest considering a doubles primer for getting ready for the course. Fundies is exhausting (work on the swim test in advance). Long days, but sooo worth it.

Consider also posting your experience. A number of folks have done that.

Just one piece of advice. Have a backup dry suit on hand, as my zipper failed on the second day of diving, making me miss one dive.