My first ice dive

[MichigandiverJon]

Well, at the risk of criticism, I just did my first ice dive this weekend in a small shallow pond to see how myself and my buddy would fare. All in all, I thought it went quite well. Air temp was 23*F and water temp was 37*F max depth was 11 feet. The small shallow venue was to control the conditions as much as possible. ice was 12 to 14 inches. I was diving a dry suit and my buddy dove a 7mil farmer john that we "primed" with hot water. We were both fairly comfortable, one of my gloves flooded right off so I switched to my 5 mil wet gloves and still was comfortable for the 17 minute dive. Due to the shallow water we couldn't stay off the bottom and silted up the water so viz was quite poor. We ran a vertical line down to the bottom with an anchor with the bitter end moored to a T bar through the ice at the surface. We attached our reels to this line to keep our bearings and we stayed very close to each other. Doing it this way though, definitely increased our task loading. I'd definitely use a tether handled by surface support in the future so we didn't have to handle the reels ourselves. And an ice class is a must for next year, I'm hooked.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Let me get this right. After less than 49 dives in your life, you treated yourself to an ice-dive without formal training in Ice-diving?

 

[xdjio]

At the risk of sounding blunt, do you know why this was incredibly dangerous?

 

[MichigandiverJon]

At the risk of sounding blunt, do you know why this was incredibly dangerous?

I do understand that it is inherently dangerous, overhead environment, reg freeze ups, disorientation etc., and as such I will not be making anymore ice dives without formal training. We had surface support people and did not venture more than just a few feet from the hole. It was more of a test of comfort in colder water than anything else. But I do welcome honest comment on risks, dangers, etc. aside from the obvious lack of formal training.

 

[pasley]

Well, at the risk of criticism, I just did my first ice dive this weekend in a small shallow pond to see how myself and my buddy would fare....max depth was 11 feet. The small shallow venue was to control the conditions as much as possible.... ice was 12 to 14 inches. ... We ran a vertical line down to the bottom with an anchor with the bitter end moored to a T bar through the ice at the surface. We attached our reels to this line to keep our bearings and we stayed very close to each other. Doing it this way though, definitely increased our task loading. I'd definitely use a tether handled by surface support in the future so we didn't have to handle the reels ourselves. And an ice class is a must for next year, I'm hooked.

Quote condensed to relevant parts. Assumptions: A: Your dive buddy was not an Ice Instructor B: no surface support, c: your dive hole was square. D: your profile is correct as to your experience level and level of training. Disclaimer: I am not trained in Ice Diving and therefore cannot by any means think of all the ways this could have gone sideways. My thoughts are of course limited to the more obvious points. You did think about it a bit and plan it out and you pulled it off, but that does not mean it was the smart thing to do.

1. Small shallow venue with ice 12-14 inches thick to "control conditions as much as possible". Un huh. With an overhead environment of 12-14 inch thick ice, if you lost the hole, you would not be able to break through to the surface.
2. The use of a down line and reel so you could find you your way back to the hole was a good idea. At least you thought of that. But am I to understand you were diving under ice with no surface support? Not good. Surface support is important for many reasons. One of the risk of cold water diving is loss of body heat leading to mental confusion and/or loss of fine motor skills. There are many potential emergencies that could have occurred including but not limited to: T-bar anchor manages to shimmy a bit and fall into the hole or through the ice, drysuit inflator valve freezes up and you do not have the dexterity to disconnect the hose, equipment failure, can't find the hole etc. It is good to have at least 2 people on topside support. One to help while the other calls for help. They should be prepared with cutting tools to quickly open an new hole if necessary.
3. Not an Ice diver myself, but where I have seen photos and articles about ice diving the hole was usually triangular in shape to make crawling out easier. Another point for topside support.
4. Paths were also cleared in the snow on top of the ice in all directions with > coming off the path to point the direction back to the hole. Don't know if you did this or not, and in a very small pond, well you still need it. Diving in an overhead environment (cave, wreck or ice) it is easy to miss the opening my just an little bit and run out of air looking for the hole. Particularly if visibility is bad due to stirred up silt.
5. Was your dive gear (regulator) rated for cold water diving? Not all regulators are the same. Some of the lower end recreational regulators are not rated for deep technical diving and/or cold water diving. You first stage could freeze up.
6. In all dive situations that exceed the limits of your training and experience remember this "You don't know what you don't know". In short, while it may look simple, and I will agree you appear to have put some thought into it and took some precautions, because you are untrained and inexperienced in ice diving, you could not possibly know or address all safety issues.

 

[swimmer_spe]

As someone who IS Ice diver cert....

I would do 2 things.

I would shake you hand for doing what you did to make yourself safe...

But then smack you upside the head for your stupidity.

If you had only went into the water, and stayed at the hole so that there was no overhead, then the smack you would have gotten would have been less from me.

Unfortunately, most on here will hit you a lot harder than I would.

Go get the training.

 

[Agility]

three weeks ago we had planned a dive at a benign shallow site. air temerature -7°C.
But the entry was frozen https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=711198995578310&set=pcb.711199655578244&type=1&theater the surface was not frozen in the middle of the lake, two more experienced divers in our group wanted to go in all the same using reels to find their way back stating they had done that in the past. two divers of the group voted for trying another nearby site that does not freeze so fast. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=711199122244964&set=pcb.711199655578244&type=1&theater
we did a very nice dive at the alternate site with 2 cold water certified regs freeflowing, the boltsnaps and hose connectors freezing stiff after exiting the water (we had to put the equipment into the cars and turn on the heating to screw the regulators off the tanks), my left dryglove leaking a little bit etc. etc.
diving in these conditions is more dangerous than in warm water. as you might or might not see on the second picture, we were all diving two first stages and all but one using doubles and even with that equipment two of us did not want to go under the ice.
The others aggreed that any diver can thumb the dive at any time even before entering the water.
If I ever go ice diving it will be with a group that does that regularily (e.g. EISTAUCHEN 2014 Weissensee)and after overhead training.

 

[Subcooled]

I hope that you enjoyed your dive. Ice diving can be wonderfull. A sunny winters day. Clear water. The blue and green hues of midday sun... Or it can be a cold silted out mess

The risk level depends on many things. Visibility. Sunshine or overcast. Silt. Depth. Equipment. Skills.

If you only ventured a short distance under the ice and used a line and kept the hole visible and were carefull with bearings then the risk was not great. Yet not zero either. It is good that you had a continuous line to the surface. I hope that you also had a mental state that allows you to focus on reeling back in a relaxed manner in case of a violent free flow. If you drop the reel in such a situation, do some nervous kicking, silt up the place and loose bearings, then you're dead. But if you manage to stay calm, ignore the bubbles and just do a relaxed swim back, then you're fine. Properly managed (not slack) surface tended line is much more fun as it allows you to relax and enjoy the site. Especially in shallow muddy ponds. I do use reels at some sites and surface tended ropes at other sites. Using a reel may allow you to dive further from the hole but is a lot more work and less fun unless you do it well. And the risks increase. In darkness you should be proficient in the lost line drill, though I remain sceptical about your/anyones capability of relocating a line from deep soft mud.

There are some hidden dangers in ice diving and one is that the hole is visible from below, not from the side. So if you loose the line/hole and have no surface support, then you actually want deeper to take a look. Looking up may reveal the location of the hole. Shallow is dangerous. If you have surface support then you should stay close to the ice instead, as it is from there the safety diver will locate you and your breathing supply lasts longer there.

Another hidden danger is that if you loose buoyancy control and commence an uncontrolled ascent then you had better to remember that the ceiling is quite hard... And that you'll soon hit it. At speed...

Getting out of the water can also sometimes be 'interesting'. Make a large circular hole and you'll stay there until summer comes Triangular, square with a narrow canal, star shaped, flower shaped, anything goes as long as you can get ice on both of your sides. Or a ladder or a handline. The hole should be big enough for both of you though, so making a twenty inch well is not a winner idea.

If you really want to be safe and relax, then you should bring double tanks, even small ones, with two independent first stages and cold water regulators. The compressor must be well maintained to produce dry air, and please do pour the water out of your tanks... It's nice to be able to shut down the bubble machine, and reopen it as needed.

Many many minor (and some major) details have been omitted in this post.

Go locate someone that actually does ice dives and you'll learn a lot.

 

[Redshift]

Still waiting to try my first, although the winter hasn't been that cold this year! :/

I think you tried to recognize the dangers and have the means to minimize the risk. At least, that's better than going blindly, although to really be aware of all the risks and the proper procedures you need a course, and you know that. So my only advice is for you not take this experience as a sign that things are easy and start venturing more. You can dive 1, 2, 5 times without a problem, but what happens if on the 6th something happens? And you've seen that viz goes down, you could have had a reg failure at the time, it would be hard to communicate with your buddy, entanglements could happen when trying to quickly go to the opening...

 

[MichigandiverJon]

Thank you all for your honest advice and candid comments. To clarify a couple points not in my OP: All regs were cold water rated and environmentally sealed, the hole was triangular, ice surface was cleared with radiating lines that all converged at the hole. Three surface people were present at all times, we had discussed freeflow events and as such, did not venture very far from the hole. The downline also was secure in the ice at the surface and had handholds to assist exit. There is still much for me to learn as you all have pointed out, the object of this dive was not bravado, but rather a test to see if it was something I wished to pursue and I believe I would like to.

That all being said: I do not intend to ice dive again without a formal class. Thank you all again.