My first dive incident (long)

[RobinG]

You did well.

IMHO, newbies should dive with experienced divers for a while, which is sometimes tough to arrange. But it helps calm the newbies down to be around people who know the terrain.

However, I have 660 dives and none at high altitudes so I would call myself a newbie on that dive, so be careful. Encourage your friends to go back to the site but with more locally experienced divers that you all may like and trust. I have dived lakes and rivers -- I hate heavy neoprene and understand how it made her feel. This is where your thought about 3's being too many is right on. With one more experienced buddy, she'd have probably been calmed down quickly and been OK.

As for taking Rescue, I would encourage you to do so. Taking a class as you say does not make you expert, but I'm convinced that every bit of extra training and learning is good. Even your friends might benefit from taking additional classes (talk to teh instructor about Rescue first) because the more you learn, the less apt you are to panic.

Robin

 

[Mako Mark]

Unfortunately, a team operates on the level of the weakest link, and that's where things went south.

All kudos for the post, I know it is never easy to sit down and objectively self critique, let alone open yourself to others critique.

please read this

Your analysis of what went wrong sounds on the button to me.

You did EXACTLY the right thing by dumping the weights, far too many divers die with their weight systems on.

You did EXACTLY the right thing by not going back for the weights, this could have easily ended in tragedy and nobodys life is worth a mere $113.
.

Somehow I don't think my friends are going back there anytime soon though. I think finding some more experienced people to dive with is definitely the way to go.

Bingo: baby steps dude, buddy up with someone that can mentor you a little, a local dive club is a good way to go. There is nothing more dangerous than the blind leading the blind. Fortunately, your cautious approach and discretion during the learning of this lesson cost only the two belts, when it could of gone horribly wrong.

Once again; Kudos for making a difficult post, and for excercizing sound judgement and caution in a difficult situation.

Oh yeah, Dont listen to Brad, he obviously didnt listen to your request for good advice and no bashing.

 

[wolf eel]

[Any advice? What could I have done differently? I'm feeling guilty that I may have overreacted and cost them this money. Deep down, I think I did right, but now I'm not sure]

You did excellent.

Most people do not understand the dumping of wieght untill they are in more trouble then your selves.

Your friends may need to be told or better ask somebody to take them out who has loads of experience that way they can make comments to them with out you hurting your friends feelings.
Your wife was mistaken in the idea you may have gone over board as they both where in trouble.

Solo diving is not a good idea for any new diver it has its own problems and they are not ready in any way. You could go as a two some and find your weights ? Diving with three people was not the problem your experience is. Again train more in an area you feel safe with your wife and friends avoid the shore groups as they may take your focus away. train it is the best thing to do.

Advice not much can be given you did the right thing but be carefull about getting right in there with people out of control.

Nobody likes to lose money to a lake bottom but better broke then. Later that has another saying better bent then.

Cheers
Derek

 

[Scubamedicjoe]

I going to take another approach to this, not say you had bad training because, I wasn't in your class and can't say that, however I will say I do recommend some pool time, with all you as a group to get allot more comfortable maybe then move to next level. Then you will be more prepared for your next trip and vacation.
I think you made the right choice not going after the weight belts maybe later on if there not found by someone else. oh dive shop price was a little step.

 

[bradb21]

Maybe I was quick to attack you when it wasn't warranted. It sounds like you did the right thing be helping your friends. You're all really "green" and fortunately you were able to step up and possible save the life of one of your friends. <Pat yourself on the back>

I have anger towards the certification process more than anything. I can't friggin believe the certifying authorities don't require experience (logged dives) to move on to more advanced certifications. PADI for instance only requires 20 logged dives for Dive Master. I think they should have 20 logged dives minimum for AOW. I know opinions on the board differ for this, but I think divers should be required to get experience to perfect their skills before moving on. Having been diving for 17 yrs and recently (3 weeks ago) decided to get my AOW. The time I was in the water with the newbie’s in my class I was afraid for my own life because they had absolutely NO bouyancying control (among many other problems). Some people had problems even submerging themselves (how can someone call themselves AOW and can’t even submerge??). I don't know how many times these retards kicked me in the head, submerged themselves on top of me (obviously not looking down) and submerged underneath me hitting me in the private parts (not looking up). I was scared for myself every time I was in the water with these fools. Fortunately my buddy and I spend more than half the time dry on-shore waiting for these morons to complete the exercises (stuff I considered basic). Maybe my experience is a bad example, but in my opinion these people didn't have the experience to have an OW cert, let alone AOW.

Sorry for bashing you, as it seems you did the right thing. I just encourage you to get more experience before continuing your education, for your own safety and the people in your class.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

Here's the background. I certified last summer with diver A and his wife, diver B. My wife certified just a few months ago. Since that time, diver A and I have also completed our AOW (this April). I have done a few dives in addition to my training, and actually feel very comfortable in the water. Diver A and B haven't done any dives outside of the training dives. My wife hasn't either.

The only issue here is that there are 4 people who havn't dove very much. Really nothing wrong with going out and making a couple fun dives. Actually, its a good idea.

Yesterday, the four of us went to the local lake to do an easy shore dive. My wife only went to observe. She didn't feel comfortable in diving cold water with heavy neoprene until she's done a few Carib dives.

I don't quite understand this, but its her decision. Carib dives at least helps her get comfortable under water. Good you didn't press the issue.

So now, we are down to three. I'd hoped to talk her into it, but now I'm glad I didn't press the issue. Outside temp was 89F, and the water was 68F at the surface with a visibility of about five feet.

Three individuals who havn't done very many dives. Ok.

Swim out to the bouy, descend to the plane, spend 20 minutes max on the bottom, ascend, and swim back to the beach. This meant a surface swim of about 60 yards.

Good job planning the dive

As we suit up, we have a string of the usual newbie problems. Fighting the heavy neoprene, putting a tank on backwards (facing the wrong way), etc., but with good buddy checks the three of us get it all together. We do a weighting check also. After adjusting weights, we decide we are ready.

He doesn't state who had the problems. So there is no reason to slam him for this. Diver B hasn't dove in a YEAR
Diver A in almost 4 months.

On the swim out, this is where problems strike. First, the vis is crap, so you have no landmarks when you are snorkeling out and staring into a brown fog. We slowly spread out over the distance. Not far, but not within hands reach either. I drift of course a bit. Diver B falls behind a few yards, while her husband diver A reaches the marker. I pop my head up to see I'm off to the left, and I hear Diver B a few yards away say, "I'm done, I'm going back, I'm not doing this dive."

A compass swim would have been a better idea. Swimming on the back wouldn't have done a whole lot more unless he marked something in the shore and swam directly away from it towards the bouy.

I say, "OK, you're done, we're all done, we'll go back and review and replan."

This is the first good decision in a series of them. Great job dude.

I tow Diver B back to the beach, encouraging Diver A all the way.

I don't evidence crappy training here. He remembered how to remove someone elses weight belt, how to do a tow, how to keep his calm... sounds like good training to me.

On the beach, we talk about what happened...

Good idea

We go to their house, hose off the gear, and return it to the LDS. The shop charges them $1.70 a pound, with an end ticket of $113 bucks.

Ok, here is where I think you got ripped. Badly.

I've already decided after this experience, I'm never diving a threesome again.

Don't judge threesomes based on one experience.

I was really scared, not for myself but for my friends, and I really felt that dropping the belts was called for, but the end result was the money and my wife saying it didn't look that bad from shore. Now I'm feeling like I overreacted and I should have taken things a bit slower and handled it differently.

Your wife wasn't there in the water with you. You didn't over react, you reacted in a manner that saved a bad situation from becomming a recovery situation. Kudos to you.

Some of the things I learned: call the dive if it feels uncomfortable, don't wait for a small problem to become a big problem, don't dive in threes, and be certain your gear fits you. I'll never do a threesome ever again, even though I didn't have a problem. There was no one left to rescue me at this point if I did.

Except for the threesome thing, Good lessons learned.

Any advice? What could I have done differently? I'm feeling guilty that I may have overreacted and cost them this money. Deep down, I think I did right, but now I'm not sure.

You did right. Stop beating yourself up over the money. What's more important, the $$$ or the fact that you still have two friends alive.

TwoBit

 

[DandyDon]

Damn! A couple of close calls, and you get slammed. They both asked for help, they dropped the weights, and they whine. Too bad you have to put up with such caca, but it happens.

Have you had a hard talk with your wife about keeping her mouth shut about things see know so little. Sorry, I've been a bachelor for a couple decades, so don't take my advice, but if anyone made remarks that "it didn't look bad from shore" after you had two dives panic, I'm afraid I'd respond harshly.

I starting to think that no one should dive unless they own and maintain their own equipment. At least don't use rental gear without pool checkouts.

 

[mikswi]

You did not screw up.

Yes, very well put.

You made a couple of tough choices, and in my opinion, you made the right ones.

The dive was blown when the woman panicked. That's not really her fault, she was inadaquately trained, nothing you or she could do about that. A more experienced diver could have had the same problem and gone on with the dive, but they are not heavily experienced divers.

You did show a heck of a lot of leadership and skill in dealing with that potential crisis though. You are the type of guy I'd like to see progress in training and go for Dive Master and Instructor some day.

Perhaps y'all had a bad instructor, and as a result the others did not recieve enough training, but obviously you took it to heart, and learned what there was to learn.

Put the others in your group back in the oven, they need a little more time before they are ready. You also need more experience, and a little more training never hurt anyone, but for as little experience as you profess, you're doing great.

I am curious though, $113.00 for lead Divided by $1.70 a pound = 66.470588235294117647058823529412, Thats approx 33.24 lbs a person. I am curious if part of their problem was being over weighted......? I am assuming this was a freshwater dive. I use that in saltwater and at the risk of being laughed at, Im a big guy. But I like being overweighted by about 2-4 lbs, cant give a definitive reason why-it only makes sense to me.

I admire your ability to remain calm despite your potential inability to be rescued yourself. I myself was put in a similar situation. Remember, as cold & calloused as it seems- you need to remember that you WILL survive. The other person is already in trouble, your just running damage control and trying to help. NEVER-EVER put yourself in a situation that will not allow you to save yourself if needed. No point in having 2 victims.

I would recommend the Rescue Diver class, you seem to have some of the skills already. At the risk of insulting you and your decision to use your instructor, I would "consider" finding another. He/she may have done everything right, but for some reason- he/she was not able to instill certain remedial actions in their students. The dynamics of being able to connect with people is not an exact science and one can never know for sure if they are getting through.

Be well, Dive safe, Always learn

 

[El Orans]

As far as I can tell you did the right thing(s).

Anybody has the right to call a dive, before or during a dive.

I've already decided after this experience, I'm never diving a threesome again. Too much can go wrong.

Diving with a threesome shouldn't have to be a problem. I dive quite regularly as a threesome (my wife - AOW, a colleague - RD and me - RD). Everyone has a fixed position in the team. We all have identical gear.

The problem is AFAIK that the three of you did not have enough experience for this dive. Then things probably would have gone wrong even though it would just have two of you instead of three.

 

[jstuart1]

Robert,
I just finished OW last weekend so obviously I don't have the experience of the others posting here. However, from my newbie point of view you kept your cool, performed to the best of yor ability and training to help two people who were in trouble. I have experienced a wetsuit that was to small (2 mil) when hubby and I used to kayak in the surf. I wouldn't get far at all before my hands were asleap making it hard to paddle. I can only imagine what a wetsuit to small in the chest/body would feel like. Dive B switched to the snorkle for the surface swim I think because at least in my OW that's what we were taught to do. Unfortunately she didn't get it cleared well, has a wetsuit that is to tight to get a good breath to clear it and begins to panic. From a newbie perspective, I can easily see where 1) being nervous on a first dive after certification and especially if it wasn't within a few weekends of it. 2) to many things going wrong at once especially related to breathing led her to be really scared. I can relate to this too! If you read my post on my open water weekend day 1 you'll easily see why I can relate. For diver A, I think the biggest problem for him was seing his wife in trouble. I just went through a heart attack with my husband and feeling scared and helpless can do bad things to you.

I think you did great and would feel very confident in diving with you. As for your friends, I am sure they are battling fear, embarassment and much grattitude for your skills. I would think the 113.00 wouldn't bother them at all as that is money easily replaced.

FWIW

Judy