My AN/DP/Helitrox course

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How about:

“We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.”

― Archilochus

I know for me, that was my biggest criticism in my Fundies class: that I moved too fast, on many levels. I would respond to something (a command, an issue, etc.) too quickly, and by using movements that were too fast. For someone who prides himself on mental agility, it was a weird and painful lession. Here I am a year later, and only after a real and deep focus on this can I see progress. Enough? Don't know -- doubt it. But no other SCUBA "skill" has been harder to work on. Because it's not something I *do*, it's something I *am*.

I see the same sort of thing in other divers, too -- including @Marie13. Something that they consider a strength in their normal life that interferes with their ability to perform beyond a certain level in the water. To overcome that requires *so* many things: awareness of the issue, understanding of why it's a negative in this context, self-awareness to understand why you're doing it and the self-control to see it in advance and stop it.

It's a struggle. Makes trim and buoyancy look like kindergarten stuff... :)

That's a huge thing to learn. And something to be really proud of. Changing a fundamental part of your personality is painful, time consuming stuff. It's not something you practice for a month and figure out. It's like rebuilding the foundation of a building without letting the whole thing collapse. For me, the struggle was learning to compartmentalize emotions and triage issues under pressure. I used to freeze up under stress and criticism felt really personal. But I really wanted to be a pilot, and that **** isn't compatible. It took about 6 years of really unpleasant training/environmental pressure/deliberate work and several more years of growth afterwards to get there. It can be done. I have no doubt Marie is stubborn enough to do it, she's just gonna need to channel that energy really deliberately for awhile with the right guidance. And she's gonna need to open herself up to the pain that it brings and accept it as part of the growing process.
 
That's a huge thing to learn. And something to be really proud of. Changing a fundamental part of your personality is painful, time consuming stuff. It's not something you practice for a month and figure out. It's like rebuilding the foundation of a building without letting the whole thing collapse. For me, the struggle was learning to compartmentalize emotions and triage issues under pressure. I used to freeze up under stress and criticism felt really personal. But I really wanted to be a pilot, and that **** isn't compatible. It took about 6 years of really unpleasant training/environmental pressure/deliberate work and several more years of growth afterwards to get there. It can be done. I have no doubt Marie is stubborn enough to do it, she's just gonna need to channel that energy really deliberately for awhile with the right guidance. And she's gonna need to open herself up to the pain that it brings and accept it as part of the growing process.
If I could have one wish granted in Marie13's behalf it would be this. I have personal experience with this and find it to be dead on. It is what so many of us need but few achieve. It is straight up on topic to this thread. Up until now, I thought this thread had long since served its purpose but if the above post motivates the needed action then it is perhaps the most on topic post in the nearly 1,000 posts that the thread has generated.

It is indeed a long, difficult and deliberate process. We have precious little time in this life and this will literally take years but it will make everything after it better. Next to my weight loss it is the best thing I have done for myself and I'm not sure the weight loss could have happened first. I am still a long way from the person I hope to be but this step had to come first. Best wishes Marie13.
 
That's a huge thing to learn. And something to be really proud of. Changing a fundamental part of your personality is painful, time consuming stuff. It's not something you practice for a month and figure out. It's like rebuilding the foundation of a building without letting the whole thing collapse. For me, the struggle was learning to compartmentalize emotions and triage issues under pressure. I used to freeze up under stress and criticism felt really personal. But I really wanted to be a pilot, and that **** isn't compatible. It took about 6 years of really unpleasant training/environmental pressure/deliberate work and several more years of growth afterwards to get there. It can be done. I have no doubt Marie is stubborn enough to do it, she's just gonna need to channel that energy really deliberately for awhile with the right guidance. And she's gonna need to open herself up to the pain that it brings and accept it as part of the growing process.

This is excellent. I believe the kindest thing a person can do is give constructive criticism to another WITH helpful guidance to help them fix problems/improve. It shows that the giver of criticism is making an investment in the other.

The hardest thing to do is swallow your pride and accept that criticism. When you receive it, remember, real constructive criticism isn't a personal attack, it is someone that is truly trying to help you become better.
 
Precisely. Most difficult. I have my demons too. But isn't that the whole central idea of "old school" dive instruction?

Do today's instructors just play to the profitable center of the bell curve...

I'm looking for a classic SB quote. Something like >under stress, one reverts to one's most basic training...<

Anybody?
Hello. How about?
Stop, Think,....Act.
Cheers.
 
When you receive it, remember, real constructive criticism isn't a personal attack, it is someone that is truly trying to help you become better.

This is very true. Often times people take constructive criticism as a personal attack. The truth is, they are not criticizing you as a person. In scuba diving we critique our students and get critiqued when taking courses. The comments are not about who you are as a person but rather, the skills you were performing. Your actions do not necessarily reflect on who you are.

Through much study, I have found that the people who can have compassion for themselves are the ones least likely to see criticism as an attack on their person. Those who are unhappy with themselves, even if they do not recognize that this is the case, tend to be the ones who lash out or shrink away when that criticism is given.

Pride is the enemy of peace.
 
But isn't that the whole central idea of "old school" dive instruction? Do today's instructors just play to the profitable center of the bell curve...
An interesting question. And, it goes to the heart of the challenges of an individual working to overcome deep-seated characteristics of their behavior and personality, as well as the current environment in which most dive training takes place.

As several posters have stated, making fundamental changes in our behavior, in our reactions to stress, in our ability to handle problems with performance, etc., takes time. It does not occur overnight, or in a day, a week, a month, even a year in many cases. If the training environment is structured in a way that IS NOT time-delimited, it is more likely that an individual will be positioned for ultimate success. In today's commercial environment, however, most training IS time-delimited. I don't know if that is a reflection of an instructor, alone, actively choosing to play 'to the profitable center of the bell curve', as it is the shop/operation, AND the trainee, AND the instructor all choosing to play to the efficient center of the time curve. A schedule for a course is set, in advance, based on what the both the shop / operation wants - a one-weekend AOW course for example - AND a student wants. Many of us actively choose to structure our lives that way - we choose to allocate 'this weekend' to completing Advanced Open Water Diver training, or to allocate this month to completing PADI Tec 45 training, whatever. I understand why that happens, although I also understand that not everyone learns in the same way, or at the same pace. Technical dive training is not something that is amenable to fixed time constraints for many. If a diver chooses to travel to, for instance, a dive training operation in a warm Caribbean environment, and take a technical dive training course for a fixed price, to be completed in a fixed time, both the student and the operation now have an investment in timely completion. The student may only have 'X' amount of time to allocate to the training, and 'X' amount of money to cover the costs of housing. The shop may have set the price based on 'X' amount of instructor time, and 'X' number of boat charters which are anticipated to be needed. I don't know if that is as much playing to the profitable center of a curve, as it is what would be considered to be - in today's business environment - appropriate planning. But, whatever it is, that situation may well be a set-up for failure for THAT student, particularly if there are fundamental behavioral - not just mechanical - changes that will need to be made in order for the student to succeed.

Couple that with how the trainee handles frustration and stress - which may be one of those fundamental behavioral changes that needs to be made - and the likelihood of success is further degraded. A student who vents their (understandable) frustration with their own performance in an outwardly emotional manner, which may be viewed as abusive by others around that student, is going to have trouble succeeding. Each of us is responsible for our own behavior. If it is dysfunctional in certain environments, we have to either change our environment, or change our behavior, and THAT change may take time.

When I was participating in technical dive training, I 'quit' several times. I was frustrated with MY OWN performance. After one dive, in particular, where nothing seemed to go right - because of me, not because of the course or the instructor - I exited the water with the two instructors and the other trainee, and as they were chatting about the dive, I remained quiet but went about getting out of my gear, and packing up my stuff. Then I simply - but abruptly - said, 'I quit. You all go on without me.' No other explanation, I just took my marbles and went home. Had it been a course when I was expected to complete the requirements of that dive, on that weekend, or where the instructors were put off by my absurdly childish behavior, I wouldn't have ever finished. Fortunately, both instructors were friends. I had the ability to go home, think about what the real cause of my frustration was, accept the fact that MY behavior was inappropriate, and I called the primary instructor, apologized, and scheduled time to redo the dive. That happened 15 years ago. Had it happened 15 years before that, I might have not just said, "I quit.' and left, I might have had a full-blown, profanity-laced, emotional eruption. Even today, I have to recognize the warning signs of growing frustration - with myself, primarily - and work to control my reaction. It is easier, but I am not 'cured'. Nonetheless, it is entirely MY responsibility to correct the problem, and not anyone else's.

The value of this thread extends far beyond the individual who started it. I do not know the OP personally, only as a SB user. I have no particular investment in the individual outcome, I don't need to communicate with the dive operation to get more information, etc. Rather, the discussion is both a necessary reminder, and a challenge, to me, to continue to grow and develop and work to change. I hope that it serves that purpose for many users.
 
There is huge value in seeing feedback as a gift. People that give feedback are interested in your development, people with no interest will shake their head and mutter and walk away. Receiving feedback is hard, accept it gracefully and reflect on it honestly.

Feedback also has to be given with the right intent. Address the skill or behaviour, not the character of the person. Too many people make their feedback vague to soften it, be concise, succinct and give the person time to absorb it. Giving feedback is hard, do if for the right reason and invite feedback on yourself.

How we approach things is always a factor in the outcomes that are delivered. The teacher arrives when the student is ready, on every dive course and every day we fill both roles. A dive company can't offer all things to all people, they must cater to a market. The diver must be as discerning as the instructor about the relationship having the chance to succeed, no matter how tempting.

Churchill had a quote, "I'm always ready to learn, though I do not always like being taught". Friend of mine played golf on a 2 handicap, his coach didn't spend much time on his swing given it clearly worked, what he did was mentor how he approached his game. To me, technical diving is more of a coach/player relationship. My instructor isn't teaching me how to dive, he is helping me integrate a new skill, or how to respond to a scenario, or a gear configuration to open up a new avenue of diving. He's most effective when he asks more questions than I do, which is unspoken feedback on the quality of my preparation. This is great for me at this point in my life and this level of my diving; 10 yrs ago I didn't have the maturity for it. Sounds like Marie is on a positive path for her, which is fantastic.
 
I'm always sad when someone hurts, regardless of reason unless they themselves were being deliberately hurtful.

I'm the last person to judge anyone. I only hope after all this time forward movement has occurred. I wish Marie13 and DRIS the best.

Life's too short.

Take care
Simon
 
In St Abbs (aka New Asgard) to get your kit in and off the boat there can be an 8m ladder climb to the top of the quay. There is a crane but you might think twice about hanging you rebreather or whatever off that. The crane is unusual, mostly you have to manage with whatever ladder there is. Sometimes there is a floating pontoon.

The boats all have lifts though.
Just saw this post, I am not sure I’d feel safe climbing a 8m ladder with equipment on my back.

Has anyone ever slipped and fallen ?
 
Just saw this post, I am not sure I’d feel safe climbing a 8m ladder with equipment on my back.

Has anyone ever slipped and fallen ?
Not as far as I know. It would hurt a load so I would expect to have heard about it. Mostly people use the crane, I have had kit damaged that way so the rebreather I wear. I might put the cylinders on on the boat to make it less heavy.

Really though, if you manage the ladder without the twinset/rebreather you can probably do it with it.

Dive planning...
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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