More L.A. County fatality stats (Casino Point & others)

[tracydr]

I think it's also become more of a mainstream sport compared to years back - even in the 80s. For those in our 40s, our first exposure was probably on TV and it seemed like going to the moon. Now you walk into almost any coastal sporting goods store and they're teaching SCUBA. It's great that more people are into the sport than ever!

From the older stats, however, I wonder how much had to do with equipment failure? It would be hard to deny that equipment today is far, far superior and safer to what was used 10 or 20 years ago - especially the inclusion of computers vs. dive tables as standard fair for most divers. But since I know little to nothing about older gear, I can't even begin to make a guess. All I know is that when I went to the diving museum, I looked at some of the older stuff and shook my head in wonderment. Truly some brave divers out there!

10-20 years ago? Equipment wasn't that different. I certified 16 years ago and the equipment was basically the same. In fact, I'm just now starting to replace some of the first equipment that I purchased.
Now, if you're thinking 35-45 years ago, well then you might be talking some older and perhaps less safe gear.
although, I'm not sure computers have ever been proven to be safer? I think many divers consider tables just as safe, computers are simply easier to use and give real-time adjustment for multilevel diving, thereby increasing bottom time. In-fact, since tables are usually calculated as if you spent your entire time on the bottom, one could even argue that they have a safety factor built in?
I dived only tables for a few years before I could afford a computer. This included dives up to 100 feet and several dive trips with repetitive dives.

 

[Thiad]

That's good to know, Tracy... (and that's even better equipment!) You're right - if you look at some of the videos from 10 years ago, nope, not too much difference. Except more colorful (Pink PADI videos - ick). Were divers in the 70s and earlier, however, diving with some of the redundancy that exists today? I was watching something from the 1960s and no one carried an octo, for example. It's fascinating to see how equipments changed.

On the tables, allow me to expand on that thought. Computers are definitely easier eliminating the need to know tables (and that's a shame - everyone should have that skill especially when technology fails us - which it will). But the bottom time increase was where I going along with the refinement to the tables over the years. Original tables developed in 1908 were just a small subset of the population. The Navy tables were developed using Navy divers - physically fit men and no women. PADI tables didn't come out until the 1980s and, as I understand it, (though probably not the first), covered a wider swath of the overall diving population encompassing substantially more people - varying levels of fitness, age, gender, physical abilities, etc.

But by that argument, and to your point, one could say that diving tables were actually safer due to their more stringent adherence to a smaller subset. Less bottom time, possibly, but less of a risk of DCS.

It's fascinating.

 

[scjoe]

It is often pointed out that Navy tables were developed using Navy divers who presumably were younger and fitter than the general population. There does not seem to be any record of the age or fitness level of the divers actually used. It is rarely pointed out that Navy NDL tables have been safely used for years by scientific divers and the general recreational community. How the tables were developed (Haldane started out with goats), is not as important as how they performed when properly used.

 

[scubadada]

Peter... as I indicated, the LAC program apparently no longer certifies OW students like it did when I was certified in the 60s. I'm not sure exactly when they stopped OW certification. Today they offer a fantastic ADP program but it is for certified divers. Given the fact LAC OW certs are no longer given, it is hard to compare apples to apples (LAC OW cert to PADI/NAUI/SSI/etc OW cert), although I'd say based on my experience comparing a LAC OW cert to a PADI OW cert is more like comparing watermelons to grapes..

I was unaware that the LA County Underwater Unit was back under the auspices of the LA Co Dept of Parks and Recreation as of July 1, 2012. They will be running the ADP, UICC, and 3Rs but will not be offering Basic and Intermediate Scuba Diver Certs Los Angeles County Department of Parks & Recreation - UNDERWATER UNIT | Since 1954

LA County Scuba will continue as an alumni and historical entity of the LA Co Underwater Unit but will offer training under NAUI guidelines Welcome to LA County Scuba! - Home of the Underwater Instructor Certification Course! It appears Dr Bill is correct, the days of the LA Co OW cert are over. I'm grateful for having had the opportunity to do my initial scuba training under the 1st, and arguably, the best, public certification course.

Good diving, Craig

 

[leabre]

Peter... as I indicated, the LAC program apparently no longer certifies OW students like it did when I was certified in the 60s. I'm not sure exactly when they stopped OW certification.

They last did the OW class in 2008 that I'm aware of.

 

[Peter Guy]

Thank you Dr. Bill -- but wouldn't it be nice to have some good information on the graduates anyway?

 

[drbill]

Thank you Dr. Bill -- but wouldn't it be nice to have some good information on the graduates anyway?

Oh, I agree, Peter. I can't speak for the more recent LAC OW courses as mine was in the late 60s. It was an incredible course that carried one through much of current day OW, AOW and Rescue. Of course we didn't have the same equipment back then... no BCD, SPG, octo, dive computer, etc., to cover in the course. I didn't realize the LAC OW certs were still going as late as the last decade.

 

[billt4sf]

This is an offshoot of the thread asking about fatalities at Casino Point (the Avalon Underwater Park). Capt. John Kades at the L.A. County Department of Coroner, the guy I report to directly and consult with most often, has done an excellent job of compiling fatality stats for L.A. County diving going back to 1994. (The pre-1994 records are a bit hazy but John is working on those.) Since I gave the "Why Divers Die" lecture to the Aqaurium of the Pacific Scientific Divers class last week and used these numbers, I thought I'd share them here as well. Bear in mind these are for Los Anegles County only. They do not include deatsh in San Diego, Orange, Ventura, Santa Barbara, Riverside, or San Bernardino Counties (collectively "SoCal").

Also understand that when a death occurs at sea, it is the first port-of-call that determines the "location" of the death. Hypothetically, a diver diving at San Migeul Island (Santa Barbara County) has a problem, is airlifted to the Catalina Chamber (L.A. County) and is pronounced dead at the Chamber. That becomes an L.A. County death. Same diver is pronounced dead on the boat, is not evacuated from the boat, and the boat heads back to its home port of Santa Barbara, it becomes a Santa Barbara County death. Same boat instead is based in Ventura and heads back there, it becomes a Ventura County death. So just because a death is tagged to a specific county doesn't necessarily mean the accident that caused the death occured within the boundaries of that county.

Here are the stats for Los Angeles County:

TOTAL FATALITIES 1994-2011 (18 years) - 81
AVERAGE FATALIES PER YEAR - 4.5
FEWEST FATALITIES IN A YEAR - 1 (1999)
MOST FATALITIES IN A YEAR - 7 (2002, 2009, 2010, 2011)
GENDER OF THOSE WHO DIED - 84% male (seems to fairly closely mirror the presumed % of male divers overall)
AVERAGE AGE OF THOSE WHO DIED - 39.9 YEARS OLD (Oldest - 78, Youngest - 15)
MEDICAL COMPONENT AS SIGNIFICANT FACTOR - 39.8% (not always cardidac but frequently is)
DEATHS WHILE DIVING ON CHARTER BOAT TRIPS - 25 (31%)
DEATHS WHILE DIVING AT CASINO POINT - 20 (25%)
DEATHS WHILE DIVING ON PRIVATE BOATS, FROM THE BEACH, ETC. - 36 (44%)
DEATHS FROM NATURAL CAUSES - 4 (it was their time and they happened to be underwater)
DEATHS WITH ALCOHOL/DRUGS AS A FACTOR - 3
DEATHS WHOSE CAUSE WAS RULED "UNDETERMINED" - 3 (a medically conclusive answer can't always be found 100% of the time)
DEATHS WHILE SKIN- OR FREE-DIVING - 6
DEATHS WHILE DIVING WITH REBREATHERS - 2 (they hapened one month apart in late summer 2006)
DEATHS OF COMMERCIAL DIVERS - 2

- Ken (Forensic Consultant - L.A. County Coroner)

FWIW, I heard fatality stats on the radio the other day. Nationwide, there were about 30,000 fatalities annually from car crashes and about an equal number from firearms (most of which are accidents). The US population is about 300M and the percent of people owning guns about 35%. So that's a fatality rate of about 0.035% annually per gun owner or 0.01% per year per driver.

LA County has a population of 9.8M, or 3.36% of the US population. If the firearm and driving deaths are proportional to population, there would be some 980 driving deaths per year in LA County, (the same number of deaths per year per gun owner).

Ken's data indicates that there are, on average, about 4.5 fatalities per year diving in LA County. So there you have it -- DRIVING to the dive site is about 200 times more dangerous than the dive! (Actually it means that driving all year is more dangerous than diving all year -- on average).

Thanks again, Ken, for your diving stats.

- Bill

 

[drbill]

Bill, those stats don't compute. There are not 9.8 M divers in LA county (not 9.8 M drivers either). You'd really need to use a better figure based on the ratio of auto deaths per mile driven or per car trip and dive deaths per hour under water or per dive.

 

[billt4sf]

You'd really need to use a better figure based on the ratio of auto deaths per mile driven or per car trip and dive deaths per hour under water or per dive.

I'd love to. Just send me the figures :blinking: