Moray Eel attack?

[ScubaFeenD]

While I agree with you about not touching the reef (corals), I think your example is an overstatement, it goes from a generalization (although a legitimate one) as a blanket statement for all touch based encounters. Certainly touching corals is bad and it can have ramifications for future divers, but the examples I provided in my post (touching a turtle that followed me for 30 minutes during a dive, picking up a cushion star from the sand, allowing Pederson cleaning shrimp to hop on and "clean" my nails, allowing a basket star to "grab" my finger) are instances where future divers are not affected. Experience, training, and common sense can lead to positive encounters and CAN make dives more enjoyable, IMHO.

You are right, my position is extreme. Even so, I admit that in some cases touching may be OK. I would restrict these situations to 1) persons who are knowledgeable about the marine life and 2) to encounters that wont disturb the ecosystem. The problem I think is that many who think they are knowledgeable are actually not. Staying at a holiday inn express or watching discovery channel does not make you an expert, and a lot of people forget this. On a dive this past weekend I was not completely familiar with the organisms except one, a hermit crab. So, I didn't touch anything while I knew for certain that i could touch the hermit crab briefly without a problem.

I suppose that I am a little more extreme on behavior such as this, because of the extensive damage that has been caused.

I wouldn't consider myself a predator while I am down there, though. I like to think of myself as a fly on the wall--with a ton of bubbles and noise.

 

[cappyjon431]

You are right, my position is extreme. Even so, I admit that in some cases touching may be OK. I would restrict these situations to 1) persons who are knowledgeable about the marine life and 2) to encounters that wont disturb the ecosystem. The problem I think is that many who think they are knowledgeable are actually not. Staying at a holiday inn express or watching discovery channel does not make you an expert, and a lot of people forget this. On a dive this past weekend I was not completely familiar with the organisms except one, a hermit crab. So, I didn't touch anything while I knew for certain that i could touch the hermit crab briefly without a problem.

I suppose that I am a little more extreme on behavior such as this, because of the extensive damage that has been caused.

I wouldn't consider myself a predator while I am down there, though. I like to think of myself as a fly on the wall--with a ton of bubbles and noise.

I think we are generally in agreement on these points. I have said all along that only those knowledgeable should touch marine life, for the safety of the diver AND the safety of the organism.

There are those who would argue an even more extreme position than you, that divers being underwater (with the "bubbles and noise") alter the natural behavior of organisms, after all, divers are not part of the "natural" environment. I don't agree with this philosophy, but I do think it is a legitimate claim. The question becomes, where do you draw the line? We have all seen reef wreckers and I think it is obvious that they are crossing the line, but after that I would suggest that there are various interactions that are acceptable (to those with sufficient knowledge and training).

 

[Mr. Bubble]

So, with that reasoning, we should eradicate all Parrot fish, Sea horses and Hawks Bill Turtles. The damage they do to a coral reef environment in one day is worse than all divers combined in one year or more.

 

[silvernotch]

this thread reminds me of smacking a random girls ass in a bar and not planning on getting punched in the face

....or that's just the Jersey in me coming out

but seriously. I've yet to see an eel in the water but I defintely wouldn't go anywhere near one let alone touch it. they don't look like the most warm and cuddly creatures.

 

[DandyDon]

this thread reminds me of smacking a random girls ass in a bar and not planning on getting punched in the face

....or that's just the Jersey in me coming out

but seriously. I've yet to see an eel in the water but I defintely wouldn't go anywhere near one let alone touch it. they don't look like the most warm and cuddly creatures.

You're really pretty close actually. :lol:

Yeah we're talking about a large (why do we never see smaller ones?), snake-like animal, big mouth full of teeth always open - and wonder why anyone would think it'd be save to pet one like a lamb. :silly:

 

[Fuzzmutton]

You are right, my position is extreme. Even so, I admit that in some cases touching may be OK. I would restrict these situations to 1) persons who are knowledgeable about the marine life and 2) to encounters that wont disturb the ecosystem. The problem I think is that many who think they are knowledgeable are actually not. Staying at a holiday inn express or watching discovery channel does not make you an expert, and a lot of people forget this. On a dive this past weekend I was not completely familiar with the organisms except one, a hermit crab. So, I didn't touch anything while I knew for certain that i could touch the hermit crab briefly without a problem.

I suppose that I am a little more extreme on behavior such as this, because of the extensive damage that has been caused.

I wouldn't consider myself a predator while I am down there, though. I like to think of myself as a fly on the wall--with a ton of bubbles and noise.

Thank you. A great post! I understand your position, I think, and I agree. Since you conceeded a point in favor of "the other camp" I'll conceed one in yours...

I like to look at shells and one day while diving I found an odd one and was just sticking my hand out to examine it (the shell, not my hand) but stopped--I recognized it--it was a cone snail. My glove would not have helped, as their tooth can pierce them. Being a CA cone snail, it was not as venomous as the tropical kind but I could have been quite sick. Someone in the tropics touching one could be dead in 10 minutes they say. Touching in this instance would have been a bad thing

I have read extensively about marine life ever since the 4th grade. Nowheres close to being an expert but I am making the effort to educate myself in the area. Someone who knows NOTHING about it really shouldn't touch for their own safety (and for the protection of marine life that may be fragile) because sometimes things that look innocuous, like a small snail!, can be deadly. And you are quite right that some people would maybe watch a little TV or take a fish ID class and think they were a professional or something.

Fuzz

 

[cdolphin]

You're really pretty close actually. :lol:

Yeah we're talking about a large (why do we never see smaller ones?), snake-like animal, big mouth full of teeth always open - and wonder why anyone would think it'd be save to pet one like a lamb. :silly:

I'll bet they eat their young - hence no little ones. They look mean enough. But maybe they always have their mouth open to hunt ...if they don't see well; they are trying for the swim-by meal.

Here I am with a whopping 5 OW dives. Friends don't take pictures of friends this close to an eel. Oh, he is the same photog who didn't get the picture of the eel biting my fins six months later on another dive.

What's that about?

 

[DandyDon]

I'll bet they eat their young - hence no little ones.

I think they just hide well until huge, preying on other juveniles.

 

[pj5]

This thread makes me want to start quoting Tim the Enchanter from Monty Python & The Holy Grail.

No matter how docile and social morays seem at times, (a) they are fish with tiny brains and a lot of instinct most people don't understand, (b) they are not domesticated, and (c) they have some nasty looking teeth. Even a "domesticated" animal will tear you up when it's cornered, scared, or excited. Ever have a dog nip your fingers trying to get a toy or treat? Or a cat scratch or bite you to avoid being put in a crate or when you try to keep it from running when it's scared? Or had to avoid being trampled by startled or frightened livestock?

I am ambivalent about sealife encounter businesses that allow touching in "controlled" conditions such as the local sting ray petting tank. I am dead set against folks feeding wild predatory or powerful animals in the wild (powerful including "small" animals with powerful defensive weapons like beaked mouth)...makes them associate people with food and could cause issues for other folks the animals encounter. Especially folks without food that may smell like food for some reason. Or folks who, in the animal's mind, behave like the people who feed/fed them. Folks who may not know how to safely discourage the unwanted attention.

I do agree with teaching folks to never touch anything when they're diving. It's not that I think all touching is harmful, it's that I don't think most folks are knowledgable enough to touch. I know I'm not. It is for the protection of the diver just as much as it is for the protection of the wildlife.

 

[diver_doug]

I had one latch onto my index finger once; I had 5mm gloves on (which probably didn't taste too appetizing) so nothing happened. I had seen that youtube video where the guy gets his thumb bitten off by an eel...I can't help but wonder what would have happened to my finger had (s)he got a bare finger in his/her mouth.