Missing Diver off of Kahala, Oahu, Hawaii

[Thalassamania]

Mike, we can hear your frustration . . . Now, take a deep breath, and remember that the dive op has to feel ten times worse than you . . .

As far as the "it's only a matter of time" . . . . From the ops I talk to, it is only a matter of time. From medical problems to stupidity, only the newest dive ops haven't lost someone.

Jax ... that's crap, plenty of dive operators have never lost anyone, the attitude of, "oh well, it's gonna happen someday," is completely unacceptable.

 

[Pliny]

Mike, we can hear your frustration . . . Now, take a deep breath, and remember that the dive op has to feel ten times worse than you . . .

As far as the "it's only a matter of time" . . . . From the ops I talk to, it is only a matter of time. From medical problems to stupidity, only the newest dive ops haven't lost someone.

It sounds like this op has a lackadaisical attitude toward safety both from the fragmented incident description and Mikes firsthand experience. Thats a much bigger part of my problem with this than the simple fact they lost someone. Fatalities by themselves are too infrequent (thankfully) to do be of much usestatistically especially in the case of a single op. For all we know this diver had a medical issue at depth and never surfaced.

 

[Melon]

I have read all your posts on this subject. A lot easier to pick apart from behind your computer than when things go wrong out on the water. You weren't there, so don't judge.

 

[DandyDon]

...plenty of dive operators have never lost anyone...

Yet

 

[Thalassamania]

I have read all your posts on this subject. (insult removed). A lot easier to pick apart from behind your computer than when things go wrong out on the water. You weren't there, so don't judge.

Seeing as how you just joined, and I suspect did so to monitor this thread, the first thing that you need to do is to stop calling people names. That is not acceptable outside of the PUB, and is even discouraged there. Second of all, if you were there, as you imply, then you might have something to add, so we'd like to hear what you have to say.

Yet

I know that you mean it in jest, but that is expressive of an attitude that I find truly unacceptable. As far as diving fatalities are concerned I operate in a zero-defect environment, and yes ... it is possible to do so.

 

[odblnt]

In watching the reports on TV, is was one of the other watersport operators who made that (now-famous) comment, not the dive operator.

I started diving with Island Divers within the last few months, doing two clean-up dives with them, a pair of night dives (LCU & Angler's Reef) and a three-tanker (Sea Tiger, YO-257 & Fantasy Reef). I have found them to be very safe, with good briefings (boat & dive site), and a count upon boarding. I was even thinking about doing DM training with them.

With a group that large, they would normally have an Instructor leading the group with a DM or DMC swimming trail. I have no idea what happened that day, and even the owner was on TV yesterday saying that he wasn't on the boat that day, so they needed to figure out what happened (and all that will be buried in the Coast Guard report, just like we learned in Rescue Class).

With that being said, chances are that I do know some of the staff that were on the boat and my thoughts are with them (and, of course, the family). I feel bad and I know they feel a thousand times worse.

 

[divermike1011]

Gosh Melon, your first and thus far only post is a personal attack? Excuse me if I don't take your criticisms too seriously.

If you were there tell us what happened? If not, well, at least tell us how my analysis and opinions are boneheaded? They might be wrong, but if you're at all familiar with diving here on Oahu you know they're well within the plausible realm. The purpose of this forum is to pick apart accidents and incidents to see if we can learn anything. Even if I sat down over a beer with people on the Sea Fox and heard their stories, who's to say they'd be telling what really happened? I doubt unless it all comes out in court in either a civil or criminal trial that we'll ever know what really happened, and if we ever find out I am sure it'll take years. So in the mean time just like every other thread in this sub-forum we'll play Monday morning QB in an attempt to figure out what happened and how to avoid it in the future.

I stand by everything I've said on this thread, I've been out on dives with IDH and I've seen first hand their approach.

As to my comments about the inevitability of an incident like this: I still think it's a cop out to hide behind the fact that a diver could die at any time. While it can and will happen nothing in the news seems to indicate that all steps were taken to avoid it in this case. I am sure the diver bears fault here as well, not just the operator, but let's not give the operator a free pass either for putting divers in on a day with rough conditions.

Michael

 

[divermike1011]

I'll go one step further: rather then say a diver dying is inevitable I'd say the reality is if a diver dies someone screwed up. Might be the diver, might be the operator, but I'm with Thal on this one, there are no unavoidable fatalities in diving, every single one can be traced back to error.

Michael

 

[Thalassamania]

I wouldn't go that far, and I can point to some fatalities that were "unavoidable," but those were not escorted pleasure dives.

 

[divermike1011]

I dunno Thal, perhaps it's my background in nuclear power, but I've always found in root cause analysis it's always been possible to point to specific errors that caused a critiqueable incident.

I'll defer to your years of experience, but can you please provide some examples?

Michael