Missing Diver off of Kahala, Oahu, Hawaii

[Black_3000psi]

first of all I dont think trying to sit here and Monday morning quarter back a dive is cool at all. and your facts are way off base. I know because I was on one of the boats that was on site that morning. "NO" I am not going to go into details, the dive community has just suffered a tragic blow. a lost diver. I am sure that if the coast guard or local authority feel there is blame to be placed at someones feet they will do so. as members of the dive community, our first priority is to some how let this divers family know how sorry we are for their loss.

 

[DiverBAS]

Mike, why are you so quick to pass judgment on IDH over this incident based on sketchy reporting (which seems to be changing as more articles are written) and your experience with IDH? As you've pointed out to other posters who weren't there, they can't know what happened. You weren't there either and can not know what happened. But you have an opinion based on your dives with this operator, which is that they are to blame.

My opinion of IDH is completely different. On my many, many dives with them the boat briefs are usually done by the captain before leaving harbor and have been thorough. The site briefs by the DMs are usually complete, informative and done before each dive. At the end of each dive, roll call was usually taken; not just a head count, but a "please answer loudly when I say your name" roll call.

I've been to the barges out there, but I wasn't there on Monday, so I don't know what it was like then.

Based on my experience and what articles I've read, IDH responded in timely fashion, were organizationally prepared to respond to an emergency and .probably did things right from start to finish.

But that's my opinion.

 

[jkaterenchuk]

This is false. I would never want to work for anyone who thought losing a diver was purely the law of average and the cost of doing business. This actually make me quite angry that any dive pro would say that. Grr... I think I will wait to cool down to post more...

Grr!

Michael

Maybe instead of cooling down you should do a bit of self reflection. In the post above this ("I've often debated buying a PLB or at least a waterproof VHF for diving, but the cost has put me off.") you tell us all that your life is not worth the cost of a PLB which is about the cost of your scuba course and less then a tank and BCD. Too bad you place so little value on it.

Grr!

John

 

[Pliny]

first of all I dont think trying to sit here and Monday morning quarter back a dive is cool at all.

The purpose of this forum is to discuss accidents and try to find ways to be safer in the water. I, for one and as a non-local, learned some things that will change how I dive Oahu.

and your facts are way off base. I know because I was on one of the boats that was on site that morning. "NO" I am not going to go into details, the dive community has just suffered a tragic blow. a lost diver.

It would be helpful to know where the facts posted in this forum are off base. If you choose not to contribute them I understand, but it isn't helpful to say "you're wrong, but I won't tell you how."

I am sure that if the coast guard or local authority feel there is blame to be placed at someones feet they will do so.

Certainly there will be an investigation, and possibly civil (or criminal) proceedings. Unfortunately, these things have frequently proven to be useless to the dive community. Critical facts can be sealed. I don't see why we should pass up the opportunity to learn what we can from the facts we have available.

as members of the dive community, our first priority is to some how let this divers family know how sorry we are for their loss.

That's true. But that's not the purpose of this forum. In fact, the sticky expressly states that such sentiments should be placed in the condolences forum.

 

[Doubler]

The way I see it is that WAY too many divers become complacent with their own safety and dependent on the DM. Many get in the water and have no clue as to where they are in relationship to the boat or how to navigate back to it. As a diver this is your responsibility and for your own safety a paramount skill. The dive op may have made mistakes but any diver that gets in the water and can't find their way back to the boat is a missing diver waiting to happen. My 2 psi.

 

[Jax]

Hey, guys, can y'all take a deep breath . . . ?

This forum is not for attacking people's opinions. Accidents cause people's emotions to run high, but we can still discuss lessons to learn if we stay civil.

Let's certainly pray that Matt somehow surfaced and will be found. In the meantime, it's important we learn about how to keep track of people. As much as we dislike insta-buddies, it seems that such assignments might just at least provide a person to say "hey, the guy I was with disappeared."

Of course, roll call - taken seriously -is important.

 

[jwcfbd]

Sorry for the family and their loss.
A few years ago I dove this barge with a local shop. When we headed out there were rough seas (2-4foot) and when we got out to the wreck we had to hold the anchor line all the way down due to somewhat strong currents. Once I got to the bow I had to stop to catch my breath and during that time the DM came back to check on me. I gave him the OK so he moved on. When we went back down the other side there was a large hole to look in. We saw a bunch of fish but that was it.
That dive wasn't worth the effort IMO but once we move on it got better.

 

[divermike1011]

Maybe instead of cooling down you should do a bit of self reflection. In the post above this ("I've often debated buying a PLB or at least a waterproof VHF for diving, but the cost has put me off.") you tell us all that your life is not worth the cost of a PLB which is about the cost of your scuba course and less then a tank and BCD. Too bad you place so little value on it.

Grr!

John

John, actually this has caused me to engage in quite a bit of self reflection. Both about how I lead dives and what gear I will take with me when I do so. My personal economic reality is that at the moment I cannot afford a PLB, and yet must continue to lead dives in order to afford one, so for the moment I will continue to use a safe, conservative approach to diving which thus far has lead to zero incidents for myself or those I've taken diving. I'm not sure that a PLB or a portable VHF should be a standard part of recreational diving equipment as at some level I think it likely that these devices could encourage more reckless behavior on the part of divers, something that seems to have taken place in wilderness rescues in the cell phone and handheld GPS era. Nonetheless you raise a valid point, and I'll continue to think about it.

DiverBAS:

I'm quick to pass judgement on IDH because of my own personal experiences diving with them and the fact that news reports out here (Hawaii Public Radio for one, sorry they seem to have quite the delay in posting their transcripts) are reporting that there was a significant delay in realizing the diver was missing after the rest of the divers had returned to the boat. If, as is being reported, this is true then regardless of the operator I'd be quick to pass judgment as it seems fundamental to one's duty as a boat operator to account for all divers as soon as the dive ended. At the moment it isn't clear from news reporting that this happened, and thus far the only people implying they were there are more interested in being defensive then offering facts.

I've done nothing more then offer my own opinion of what happened based on local diving knowledge of both how diving is typically done here on Oahu coupled with my own experiences with the operator in question.

If I'm wrong about what happened, which is entirely possible as I wasn't there, and you were there or have first hand experience of the incident tell me I'm wrong and tell me why. Otherwise I am going to stand by my opinions until new information comes to light.

Yes, this is tragic, but this isn't the place for condolences, it's the place for analysis.

Michael

 

[k ellis]

Lets not get off to the wrong track here either fellas. While its important to discuss how the accident happened or even could have happened and prevented its not really helping any one by throwing in bad past experiences that really have little to do with the current tragedy. If you research any company thats been in business for any length of time you will eventually find someone who has had a bad experience with them.

I dont know any of the people who are involved and was not there nor do I really know anything about the dive companies envolved. The sad part of it is while people are trying to determine what might have happened and or even offering possible assistance to help locate the diver either alive or deceased the conversation is becoming clouded with divers past bad experiences. I too got a little off track earlier but if possible I think it would be best to leave this discussion to the accident at hand and exclude past bad experiences.

 

[cruiser]

Lets not get off to the wrong track here either fellas. While its important to discuss how the accident happened or even could have happened and prevented its not really helping any one by throwing in bad past experiences that really have little to do with the current tragedy. If you research any company thats been in business for any length of time you will eventually find someone who has had a bad experience with them.

I dont know any of the people who are involved and was not there nor do I really know anything about the dive companies envolved. The sad part of it is while people are trying to determine what might have happened and or even offering possible assistance to help locate the diver either alive or deceased the conversation is becoming clouded with divers past bad experiences. I too got a little off track earlier but if possible I think it would be best to leave this discussion to the accident at hand and exclude past bad experiences.

Do we actually know that past bad experiences with the dive op has little to do with the current tragedy? I haven't been able to discern that one way or the other from the information and speculation provided so far. If someone can provide information to the contrary, please join the discussion.

I personally wouldn't discount a diver's past experience with the same dive op, unless it happened a long time ago. The way a dive op does business can be a valid component in a dive incident, and something that is routinely looked at in an official investigation.

Just my .02.