MI Dive Industry: Wake Up!

[Riverrat Dave]

I am not sure how we could do it, but with some type of Dive association wouldn't the dive shops have to take some notice?

Maybe even the state?

Stop the bickering & and pull together.

I agree, there's much more out there than just the preserves, we need to promote it all.

 

[boat sju]

Actually I was born and raised right off of Martin Luther King Blvd. (Used to be Logan Street). I live here by choice. Like I said... Different style of living.

Of course I was just kidding with the "relatives" remark. I hunted for several years out of a camp near Ironwood and work with a lot of Yoopers (from Tech) so I've heard plenty of troll jokes too. Actually work for MDOT downtown right off of Logan (MLK).

 

[boat sju]

I am not sure how we could do it, but with some type of Dive association wouldn't the dive shops have to take some notice?

Maybe even the state?

Stop the bickering & and pull together.

I agree, there's much more out there than just the preserves, we need to promote it all.

From what I've seen Legislators will listen to whoever can get them a positive number of votes. How can they afford to listen to x number of different voices stating x number of different opinions.

Dive shops, charter operators, and local chambers of commerce near the preserves need to get together and form the Association. They need a lobbyist to present one voice to the lawmakers. As always, it's follow the money. (Just good business.)

 

[DOkie]

boat sju - I figured you were kidding. Actually you aren't that far off. The joke around my house is when the kids bring a date home we'll have to have a blood test ready to weed out the cousins that we didn't know about. (My dad's the next best thing... Weelll, you know Bob, he's Joe's son, and Joe was married to Sue, and Sue was Jim's sister...) You have my condolences for your affiliation with Lansing. Although there are many days I would kill for a Clara's pizza.

 

[kidsdream]

First off let me say that I have no affiliation with Bruno's at all. In fact 8 years and 500ish dives ago I actually went to Bruno's to learn about how to get into diving and was ignored - so I went elsewhere.

That said I applaud the poster's efforts, so much so that I most likely will stop in the Shop that I drive by on my way home from work to say hi - and maybe learn about what local trips they have planned for this Summer.

I agree that improved marketing can help to get more divers (local and imports) to enjoy our wrecks. Last Summer, through a posting on another scuba diving website, I got 6 divers (only two of which I had ever met in person) to go up to the Straits to see the wrecks we have. 2 of the guys (diving friends of mine) made the trip up from Florida - and had a great time. Neather of these guys had been water colder than 70 degrees before this trip.The other members our group included people from Wisconsin and here in Michigan. Here is a link to our trip report DIVE REPORT: D2D Michigan Wreck Fest Trip!! +

A little more thoughtful and targeted marketing, including tech training (I am finding it nearly impossible to get certain levels of tech training here in MI), ADVANCE photography oriented trips will also bring out and bring back more divers.

I am saying this even though I can travel to sites across the country when ever I want (OK I need to get the time off of work), including the fact I own I place in Key Largo.

I regularly dive with friends I've met through diving that have become their own de facto marketing organization. This includes January "Lemon Shark" dives in Jupiter, FL and September Channel Island (Truth) trips that bring 20 to 30 divers together through word of mouth/net.

So again I applaud the poster and I hope others remain much more positive than you.

Cut throat you say, Michiganders are some very competive people, and they will do what they want no matter what.

Thats right ricky, you have never seen the way diveshops, or charters, treat each other, Your wasting your time, if you think you can make a change.

Auto companys, have put a damper on goverment money, tourism, parks,the general population, has less income.



There are alot of divers that live on the great lakes that just leave from there cabins to dive, Im one of them, these wrecks are ours, If tourist want to dive them then they need to pay the big buck, and book it through the dive shops, charters.

Your not in a tourist enviorment for diving.

I actually Don,t think you have any evidence on some of the jestures you have made about the dive operators.

If you whine on this Board any more about it, don't be suprised how fast they will blackball you.

ricky you are in a very hard to make money area, the competition is in everything not just diving.


Solution, have a charter boat, fill station, captain license, and even then you will be dissapointed in how little income you have.

Good luck to you, try not to burn bridges.

 

[Divers Incorporated]

Wow,
This has been one of the most interesting threads I have ever seen. I think that there have been some good points made and while I do not agree with everything that the Gentleman from Bruno's Scuba and Hockey Shop, I can empathize with him. I Have been in the scuba business, in Michigan, for 20 years this year, and I am pleased to know almost every dive center owner in the southeast michigan area. I know most of the charter operators and have formed opinions about all of them, both good and bad, which are my right to form. Many people in the industry think highly of me, a few don't like me at all, and a few I would really enjoy knowing better. Since I purchased Divers Incorporated in 2004, I have looked for ways to grow my business and continue to work in Michigan. I think positively about the future.

Before the sparks fly I have to let you know that in 2007 I took over running the diving concession at White Star Quarry, in Ohio. Myself, and many other dive center operators have taken a lot of divers from Michigan there. In WSQ, I found that there was an opportunity to cooperate with Michigan and Ohio Dive centers and instructors in a new way... THEY are my customers there. It is a fine line to walk and I am careful to keep the two entities separate. I promote the quarry to my customer but I DO NOT and CANNOT promote my dive center to my quarry customers. There are dive centers owners who do not allow their instructors to come to White Star because Divers Incorporated is running it. That is their choice. (I still teach at Gilboa on occasion myself.)

I would like to make some comments about some of the statements that were made in this thread.

"You may want to contact the people at the attached link.... i.e.MEDC" - the hoops that you have to jump through are incredible and they are IMHO not worth the effort. We have to provide them with 5000 copies of the brochures since we have to have enough brochures for all travel centers in Michigan... (they may have changed this but that was what it would take when I looked into it last summer) From a business stand point it would cost about $3000 to produce and print the brocures. A charter company would have to generate about 45 new passengers from that ad to pay for it. This means that of the 26 weekends that are available to a Michigan operator, 3.5 weekends need to be filled with new passengers from those ads.

"...how many other shops besides Bruno's are taking students to Monroe to help promote a new local dive opportunity ?" Even though I have an interest in promoting White Star, I would LOVE to be able to promote Monroe Quarry since I live less than 5 minutes away from it. Because it is in Michigan is not a big enough balance to Poor visibility and conditions that are less than spectacular. I is important to me to have an air fill station on site for Open Water dives. I can't in good concious have someone's first time open water experience be in poor conditions if I can help it. That makes White Star, Spring Milll Pond, Lake Maceday, Gilboa and Portage better IMHO. Monroe quarry is not Typical Great Lakes conditions, the Great Lakes are simply clearer.

"I am not sure who pete Lindquist is..." - Google PETE LINDQUIST DIVING and you will find him... he is a pretty devoted charter captain with a great interest in Michigan Tourism... known him for a long time.

"can't find technical dive training in Michigan..." Without pointing at my Dive Center, Divers Incorporated, I can point you towards a number of dive centers and instructors for every theory and practice that is out there. Just call your LDS... and if they do not give you the answer you want, call the next one on the list. I do not ask that everyone buy from me or take classes from me... I would just like everyone to give me a shot at giving them what they are looking for.

Just because Bruno's is the only dive center on the MUPC site doesn't mean that Bruno's is the only dive center that supports the MUPC. I have supported the MUPC for my whole carreer... three to 10 charters a summer per year plus ads in the booklet and supporting Great Lakes Diving for most of my career. I have no argument with what you are trying to communicate but I think you need to tone it down a bit and maybe call the dive centers that you want to work with and talk with them. I know I have not received a call from you but this week alone I have talked with 4 dive charter operators and 5 dive center owners from Michigan, Canada and Ohio.

This has been a long response to a longer thread. I was asked by one of my customers to respond to this... I am usually not able to respond to threads because, I am usually diving, learning about diving, teaching people about diving or making money to go diving... hope to see you out diving soon.

Summer is just a few months away...

Rich

 

[The Chairman]

In all the magazines that I know you read you'll see some collaborative advertising. All those little Bahamian dive shops can't afford a double page spread in Rodale's Scuba Diving so the Bahamian tourist board buys the space and splits the cost with the individual shops. I've seen the same thing for various other countries and I'm sure you have too. The same could be done for the Great Lakes surely but not the way things are now.

Rick,

Kudos for wanting to make a difference! However, advertising through magazines is EXPENSIVE. The internet is far cheaper and we reach far more people. I have seen it stated in several reports that over 85% of people make their travel decisions based on information found here on the internet and that full 50% make the entire decision on the internet. To the best of our knowledge, of the million plus people that visit www.ScubaBoard.com a full 20%+ of them are not certified. Really.

 

[deepH2Odiver]

Now I realize that our state (Nevada) is a tad bit smaller than Michigan, as far as dive shops go, but wouldn't it make sense to get everyone (dive shop owners & charter boat Capt..) together and discuss the pluses and minuses of creating a dive association? Have a handful of dedicated cowboys (sorry, that's our lingo talkin' here) represent them on matters that would positively affect everyone?

If properly assembled, you could have;

marketing/promotions person
political representative
Events person
fundraising person
The list goes on...........

A tip of the hat to anyone of you that can bring some closure to the past and blaze a trail to a brighter future.

 

[rickydazla]

Rick,
Kudos for wanting to make a difference! However, advertising through magazines is EXPENSIVE. The internet is far cheaper and we reach far more people. I have seen it stated in several reports that over 85% of people make their travel decisions based on information found here on the internet and that full 50% make the entire decision on the internet. To the best of our knowledge, of the million plus people that visit www.ScubaBoard.com a full 20%+ of them are not certified. Really.

I realise that advertising is expensive but I would also venture to generalise and say that most dive businesses spend nowhere near what they should do on advertising, on an absolute level and/or relative to their revenue. I would also argue that you should spread your spend rather than limit it to one medium. Companies vary widely in their proportion of ad spend relative to revenue and you'll be hard pushed to find any definitive recommendations but 10-20% is often quoted as a range to work with. In the UK last year ad spend was split roughly as follows across various media:

• 45% Press
• 25% TV
• 10% Direct mail
• 10% Internet
• 5% Outdoor
• 3% Radio
• 1% Cinema

Do the maths guys, is this what you are doing? Anywhere near?

These media have their inherent weaknesses and benefits and ALL should be employed to be effective.

The following are media packs/ad rates I've tracked down for Rodale's Scuba Diving, North East Dive News and Intermedia Publications:
Rodale's Media Pack
-- Nearly $123,000 for a quarterly double-page colour spread
Northeast Dive News Media Pack
-- Just over $1,250 a month for a full page colour ad
Intermedia Publications Ad Rates
-- $1,000 a month for a top level banner on this site

Wouldn't it be nice if the cost of some of this (admittedly expensive) advertising could be shared with others and/or subsidised?

"You may want to contact the people at the attached link.... i.e.MEDC" - the hoops that you have to jump through are incredible and they are IMHO not worth the effort. We have to provide them with 5000 copies of the brochures since we have to have enough brochures for all travel centers in Michigan... (they may have changed this but that was what it would take when I looked into it last summer) From a business stand point it would cost about $3000 to produce and print the brocures. A charter company would have to generate about 45 new passengers from that ad to pay for it. This means that of the 26 weekends that are available to a Michigan operator, 3.5 weekends need to be filled with new passengers from those ads.

I understand what you're saying here, but I'm suggesting that the 5000 brochures should actually be copies of a revamped and updated MUPC Diver's Guide and should be produced with ads for all the area operators in the relevant sections. Costs should be shared/subsidised. That would be the goal anyway.

btw - I'm in the UK right now, I'll call you when I get back in April.

Cheers


Rick

 

[boat sju]

"...how many other shops besides Bruno's are taking students to Monroe to help promote a new local dive opportunity ?" Even though I have an interest in promoting White Star, I would LOVE to be able to promote Monroe Quarry since I live less than 5 minutes away from it. Because it is in Michigan is not a big enough balance to Poor visibility and conditions that are less than spectacular. I is important to me to have an air fill station on site for Open Water dives. I can't in good concious have someone's first time open water experience be in poor conditions if I can help it. That makes White Star, Spring Milll Pond, Lake Maceday, Gilboa and Portage better IMHO. Monroe quarry is not Typical Great Lakes conditions, the Great Lakes are simply clearer.

Rich

Rich,

I've been to Monroe several times now and have not found visibility to be an issue. It does seem to vary with wind direction but there are many different sites to dive so choose accordingly.

Considering the depth and assortment of underwater attractions I would think this would be a great place to conduct AOW training especially.

The dive shop (fill station) is not far and Brandin will shuttle tanks for you.

From a business perspective I should probably keep out of this thread anyway, but as a diver, the more dive opportunities I'm made aware of, the better. I think there's enough potential business out there for all of you, but I know a lot of people who won't dive locally because it just becomes too much of a hassle. And I don't just mean the cold, but finding charters, buddies, etc. SB is great word of mouth but contrary to what members might think of it, a lot of the more casual divers I know have never heard of it. (Disclaimer: Admittedly that's my perception and I have no numbers to back it up.)

boat