Medical Approval Issues

[RJP]

I admit I'm not sure how it works in US.

Sue everyone... let the jury sort it out.

 

[tursiops]

That has to be good for business (even if it is just a hobby).

Seems to work in Australia....

 

[BRT]

Let's be very, very clear here...

It is extremely easy to sue someone... potentially bankrupting them in the process.

The fact that the plaintiff may not actually prevail in court would be of limited solace.


I wonder whether we are at cross purposes due to differing legal cultures. Here in Australia, prospects of success plays a huge role in determining if a lawsuit is filed.
If you file a lawsuit and lose, you have to pay the other's legal costs, making filing lawsuits that you can't win a very risky business.
Both lawyer and litigant have to sign a declaration that there are reasonable prospects of success and lawyers who advise a client to file or continue a lawsuit that has no reasonable prospect of succeding can be subject to disciplinary sanctions and personal costs orders.

Further, prior to taking on a case on speculative fee basis (pretty much the only way most people can afford legal representation), the lawyer will consider prospects of success and usually decline to act unless there is a good chance of winning (and therefore getting paid).

That does not, of course, prevent all vexatious litigation, but it makes getting sued much less likely if the plaintiff has poor chances of winning.

I admit I'm not sure how it works in US.

Here they sue because they know the insurance company will settle even though there was no chance of losing in court. It is cheaper to settle than to fight because court costs are not paid by the losing party unless the losing party is the one being sued. I have seen it happen over and over again. The insurance company will always settle and if you don't have insurance you could never afford to defend yourself.

 

[drrich2]

Late last year, someone started a thread asking Would you let my wife dive? In this thread, some of us strongly but civilly debated the issue of falsely reporting a negative medical history to prevent being denied services, and the counter issue of potentially putting a burden on dive op.s & their staff should a significant medical event unfold. Since the topic has come up in this thread, I thought it worthwhile to link to one where it's been hashed out pretty well.

Richard.

 

[oly5050user]

Reductio ad Hitlerum? [/argument]

PS - you may also need to get the prescription on your reading comprehension glasses checked. I said I'd drop you as a student if I found out you lied on the medical statement. If you checked "YES" for asthma and then got your doctor to clear you for diving... that's not lying. That's what you're supposed to do.

That being said, how does one use an emergency inhaler at depth?

I have had students sign no on the form ..they lied about their medical condition. One had a huge chest scar from heart surgery (refunded his class money the instant I saw the scar) another one signed off no on drug use, he went into convulsions on the surface after a certification training dive where I had to establish an airway on him to keep him alive while towing him to the boat. I was later told by EMS people I know personally that when he was in the ER he told the attending doctor that he "always gets convulsions hours after using cocaine". Of course I failed him and told him to never return.
I or anyone else could have been injured performing these needless rescues.

 

[redacted]

Seems to work in Australia....

It works here for flight physicals mandated by the FAA. Is that really where you want to go for scuba? One more nail?

 

[tursiops]

It works here for flight physicals mandated by the FAA. Is that really where you want to go for scuba? One more nail?

Somehow, I don't think my personal decision to not accept a student without a doctor's signature might actually lead to federal regulations for everybody.
I've been accused of arrogance, but that is really pushing it a bit far.

 

[redacted]

Late last year, someone started a thread asking Would you let my wife dive? In this thread, some of us strongly but civilly debated the issue of falsely reporting a negative medical history to prevent being denied services, and the counter issue of potentially putting a burden on dive op.s & their staff should a significant medical event unfold. Since the topic has come up in this thread, I thought it worthwhile to link to one where it's been hashed out pretty well.

Richard.

As reported by RJP and oly5050user, it is pretty clear that these medical forms do not prevent medical incidents. I'm sure they make some new divers aware of some contraindications they might not have recognized. And they serve their primary purpose of establishing a paper shield for scuba providers. I don't really see a better solution. But the providers need to recognize that it also places quite a burden on the client, a burden which rarely has any benefit except to give CYA to the scuba provider. There is no benefit to the responsible, knowledgeable diver who deals with such issues with his doctors.

---------- Post added August 17th, 2015 at 07:42 PM ----------

Somehow, I don't think my personal decision to not accept a student without a doctor's signature might actually lead to federal regulations for everybody.
I've been accused of arrogance, but that is really pushing it a bit far.

Of course it would not. But federal regulations could mandate periodic physicals for all scuba divers (to maintain their "license") if there really is a danger that warrants that level of regulation and management.

 

[tursiops]

But federal regulations could mandate periodic physicals for all scuba divers (to maintain their "license") if there really is a danger that warrants that level of regulation and management.

Give your "could" and your "if" it seems pretty low probability, don't you think? In any case, recreational scuba divers are not licensed....they are certified as having passed a class. Your fear is really kind of out of bounds...it would be a state matter, not a federal matter, and the gains would be rather minimal for the effort and the bureaucracy. There are plenty of other personal safety issues that are higher on the list of concerns....and also ignored. Your very hypothetical argument is really a waste of your (and my) time.

 

[RJP]

As reported by RJP and oly5050user, it is pretty clear that these medical forms do not prevent medical incidents.

Not sure where you get this; I've made no such "report" regarding this.

Does having a truthfully executed medical form prevent any and all medical issues, including those not related to previously known underlying medical conditions? Of course not. To suggest otherwise would be silly.

Could having a truthfully executed medical form including physician clearance (or denial, if appropriate) prevent issues related to KNOWN medical issues? Of course. To suggest otherwise would be silly. I've mentioned two specific cases in this thread where the [-]diver[/-] victim would never have been in the water - and therefor would still be alive - if the medical form were truthfully executed.

Ultimately, I guess my issue with people lying on the medical form is the arrogant and selfish supposition that they have the right - absolutely, unilaterally, and completely without my knowledge - to increase the level of risk that I assume in accepting them as a student.

Please don't try to convince me - or yourself - that doing so is a matter of "accepting personal responsibility" in any way. It's the complete opposite.