Measuring success---or "How far in did you go"?

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I'm with Richard, too. I want a debrief at the end of the dive that's frank and constructive. If there's something wrong with what I'm doing and somebody has some ideas on how to fix it, I want to hear them. .

I like Jim's question, and I think we should all ask ourselves those things, and discuss them amongst the team after the dive.

One of the ways I set this up is to ask each team mate to critique their dive as soon as we surface. I also encourage them to critique the team's performance. People get used to the idea and realize it is not so bad.

After everyone has their turn critiquing it is my turn. Most of the time the team mates point out most of the problems and things that can be better on the next dive. Fostering self honesty in these situations is paramount.

Of course the ten minutes or so we sit on the surface also is good. It is a surface stop and gives us a bit more time to offgas.

I will NOT pass a cave student who cannot or will not be honest with themselves or the team.

 

[Meng_Tze]

A candid debrief of the dive is a standard part with us. Always looking to improve skills, attitude, awareness etc. Especially when we change configurations, we want to have immediate feedback during the dive so things can be corrected on the fly.

 

[Cave Diver]

One of the ways I set this up is to ask each team mate to critique their dive as soon as we surface. I also encourage them to critique the team's performance. People get used to the idea and realize it is not so bad.

After everyone has their turn critiquing it is my turn. Most of the time the team mates point out most of the problems and things that can be better on the next dive. Fostering self honesty in these situations is paramount.

Of course the ten minutes or so we sit on the surface also is good. It is a surface stop and gives us a bit more time to offgas.

I will NOT pass a cave student who cannot or will not be honest with themselves or the team.

My cave instructor did the same. We'd always spend several minutes on the surface offgassing and doing a debrief before exiting the water. He'd talk about the dive and ask my opinions, I was often harder on myself than he was. I think that trend still continues on my dives.

 

[John_B]

Unfortunately, many people scuba in complete denial to the impact they are having on their environment. They often never realize that they are leaving their mark for posterity in a rather negative manner. You might as well ask a lamp post that question and don't be surprised if you are met with the same ambivalence from divers who might resent the inference.

I agree, asking, "Did you mark the cave up with fins, tanks or your hands on your last cave dive?" is pretty rude.

When a good friend says they went to dinner last night with their wife, do you ask them, "Did you drop food all over the place, slurp and pay a low tip?"

Being overtly confrontational for no good reason is completely different from being sheepish and having no personal fortitude to tell someone they're wrong.

Au contraire, mon ami!

We DO ask this type of question with backpackers. We ask if people follow "Leave No Trace" practices in their backwood adventures. This is just as important as where they went, where they stayed, what they saw, etc.

This is absolutely an appropriate question to be asking of cave divers, in my book. And leave it to our own Capt. Jim Wyatt to once again be out in front on the subject of conservation; generating awareness and reminding people to be alert to the inadvertent or careless damage they cause to this great natural resource.

+1! We need LNT principles for caves -- and other underwater resources -- and maybe a similar budget to help get the word out!

Great thread, Capt. Jim!

 

[rjack321]

The little issues which we just mention (on the surface).

But with me and my buddies on challenging dives we give it a day or two to reflect and then try to figure out how we could have done the dive better. Big stuff like how we did/didn't work together effectively, who was stressed when and why, how to fix larger issues that we see etc.

One of the ways I set this up is to ask each team mate to critique their dive as soon as we surface. I also encourage them to critique the team's performance. People get used to the idea and realize it is not so bad.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The little issues which we just mention (on the surface).

But with me and my buddies on challenging dives we give it a day or two to reflect and then try to figure out how we could have done the dive better. Big stuff like how we did/didn't work together effectively, who was stressed when and why, how to fix larger issues that we see etc.

I have trouble remembering what I did two days ago ... or even yesterday ... if I'm doing multiple dives over a period of days (which pretty much is going to be the case anytime I cave dive). I'd rather talk about it right after the dive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

The little issues which we just mention (on the surface).

But with me and my buddies on challenging dives we give it a day or two to reflect and then try to figure out how we could have done the dive better. Big stuff like how we did/didn't work together effectively, who was stressed when and why, how to fix larger issues that we see etc.

A few of those BIG issues need to be discussed ASAP.. I dont want to do another dive that day or weekend with you if there are BIG issues. I am the type I dont want to hear you looked ok. I ask after every dive before we leave the water. If I dropped a fin at any point I want them to let me know. If I really screw up I want them to confront me as soon as they can and not sugar coat it.

 

[tgsmith]

A few of those BIG issues need to be discussed ASAP.. I dont want to do another dive that day or weekend with you if there are BIG issues. I am the type I dont want to hear you looked ok. I ask after every dive before we leave the water. If I dropped a fin at any point I want them to let me know. If I really screw up I want them to confront me as soon as they can and not sugar coat it.

I don't think my buddy and I make such a big deal out of it compared to you(at least it seems like). We'd talk about something while waiting to get out of the water, but then most of our conversation would be later on sitting around the campfire at Cathy's while drinking beer, and we'd just cover the dive casually, go over all the cool stuff, funky stuff, ask questions, ask the others watching cave man TV(a campfire) about their experiences that day, ect ect. We review our dives, but in a very relaxed way.

We don't go medieval on each other while waiting to get out of the water or even do it in a structured, methodical manner like our courses. We haven't really done complex cave dives either, which if you've got a complex dive I guess it helps a lot to have a methodical approach at it keeps your memory on track.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I don't think my buddy and I make such a big deal out of it compared to you(at least it seems like). We'd talk about something while waiting to get out of the water, but then most of our conversation would be later on sitting around the campfire at Cathy's while drinking beer, and we'd just cover the dive casually, go over all the cool stuff, funky stuff, ask questions, ask the others watching cave man TV(a campfire) about their experiences that day, ect ect. We review our dives, but in a very relaxed way.

We don't go medieval on each other while waiting to get out of the water or even do it in a structured, methodical manner like our courses. We haven't really done complex cave dives either, which if you've got a complex dive I guess it helps a lot to have a methodical approach at it keeps your memory on track.

I have come to the conclusion that with each passing year my memory gets worse .. Dont get me wrong we are not harsh but I dont mind if you are. I want to know if I am screwing up. I also like tips, tell me you looked good but try this and see how you like it and I might just have a new technique for a certain area. Most dives our briefing is short because they were well executed. I have some great dive buddies but we also are in the caves almost every week.

 

[Meng_Tze]

.... We haven't really done complex cave dives either, which if you've got a complex dive I guess it helps a lot to have a methodical approach at it keeps your memory on track.

So you don't discuss dropping your knees here and there, getting too close to the bottom on that one down slope, having that reg pop out and dragging, the sloppy jump you put in etc, etc?

(speaking in general here, not anyone in particular)