Master.........Really?

[dburg30]

I suppose the significance of the word depends on personal experiences. I have had the pleasure to know a number of individuals in several different professions who have earned the prefix in the classic sense through a lifetime of accomplishment. It is hard for me to look at a 12 year old with 50 dives and a few merit badges with the same reverence.

Does that mean that the next merit badge should be a PhD since that follows the Masters degree? How long before dive shops offer the doctor, professor, and laureate courses? Will diving merit badges start to resemble the US Congressional Medal of Honor? Does getting all the answers right on the Nitrox course qualify for magna cum laude honors?

Is it disrespectful to individuals who have spent many years earning any of these honors to bestow them on barely accomplished beginners? All of these questions come down to individual value judgments.

You are correct, just because it takes them a lifetime to earn the title, does that mean it really took them a lifetime to BECOME a master at whatever, or just took them that long to jump thru all the hoops to be allowed to officially GET the title?

I was a boy scout and leader and the similarities don't escape me. I'm not against training or even a structure, just the notion that one might appeal to ego to encourage training. The result, along with some increase in knowledge, could be an increase in ego which is counter productive to safe diving IMO.

I also think the guys who earn metals in the military are not thinking about earning metals when they are doing the things that earn them, if you know what I mean.

Depends... there are certain medals that are earned on the battlefield. Those are the ones you dont think about earning. Dont know many people that would wake up and say "Welp, gonna go get me a purple heart today!"

But to say there arent people in the military that dont go in thinking they are going to get certain medals is pretty naive if you ask me. And I would almost guarantee there are certain officers or 'masters' in the military that probably dont deserve their titles either.

I'm sorry, but there are lifers in the military that advanced as far as they can and look at it as a job. And no matter WHAT part of life we are looking at, there is always the 'stick and carrot' approach. There is always just that slightly better thing, that if you spend a little more time, normally a little more money, put out just a bit more effort you get a new award!!! Of course it's freaking marketing. But again, dont just apply it to scuba, ANYTHING that has levels of certification / education has it and has had it for a while.

 

[drdaddy]

I have two "Masters" degree, one is in clinical psychology and I also have a "Doctorate".

Maybe we need "Dr. Scuba Diver".

I have enough dives and cards to get my "Masters" in Scuba diving, which makes me "Board Eligible" but why would I pay for the card? When asked by dive outfits (i.e. diveboats) about my highest certification, they don't have "master" on their list. I mark the square that says "Rescue Diver", my son marks "Instructor".

By the way, the first grandchild who gives me a title for being such a master at baiting the hook gets their mouth washed out with soap. Actually the "penalty" would be - "Guess who gets to clean the fish?" (Thank you "David 57" - old joke, but still funny to us adolescent boys.)

 

[jar546]

Well, I must admit you got the marketing figured out. It really is about impressing non-divers.

So why are you complaining (in another thread) that boat captains want you to show up with redundant gas supplies before you demonstrate your skills? They didn't "buy" your certs?

Try to remember that this is recreational diving.

lowviz,

First, was not complaining about the requirement for doubles or a pony, simply asking for opinions on what size pony is recommended. The requirement for doubles or a pony is not dependent on certification level, it is a mandatory requirement for all divers on most of the boats in that area of the country. I really don't understand your comment.

Yes, it is recreational diving. The good part about the marketing is that it drives divers to improve themselves by taking more classes which helps them to gain experience.

As I have stated before, it is the name that bothers me and apparently bothers others too. It was a poor choice for a diving level name so low on the totem pole.

 

[vladimir]

When I hear any title that begins with "Master" I envision a seasoned veteran of his/her chosen field, educated and experienced.

I envision a slave owner: maybe a southern plantation owner, maybe Captain Tony Nelson of Cocoa Beach--somebody with people who obey his every command unquestioningly. So, with definition 2 in mind, and acknowledging that the typical open water diver is only trained to follow a divemaster wherever he may lead, I suggest that the "Open Water" certification be renamed "Slave Diver." Perhaps not the marketing coup that "Master Diver" appears to be, but maybe it'll go viral.

 

[lowviz]

The highest divers on the totem pole probably don't even have OW. Many of them started diving before the agencies formed.

Just sounds to me like you are hung up on names. Certs and titles don't do much for me other than get my tanks filled. I'll drop this unintentional hijack with this post. Feel free to return fire, it is always interesting.

 

[lowviz]

-reconsidered my approach. It sounds like I'm getting personal, and I'm not. Where I was heading:

Let the agencies bestow their lofty titles, the alternative is a non-profit regulatory agency with two titles for and endlessly growing list of skills. "Passed" and "Failed". You may and you may not. If you are caught on a boat with a "Fail", the captain in in jeopardy.

Be happy with what you have.

 

[mikecotrone]

This thread has been interesting to follow - Thank you!

Perhaps PADI/NAUI need to get special logo's for their MSD certs?

 

[EevelMonkee]

Trickery and motivation are different beasts. Providing a structure for attainment is used in many areas of education and other endeavours. MSD doesnt appeal to everyone... but then some people easily associate this with other things they are used to in life. Ever been a boy scout? They have badges too. So do the military.

Do military medals represent trickery and delusion? Or something to aspire to?

One aspect of the military that I sincerely disliked was the "never good enough" mindset. Just got promoted to X rank? Well congrats but now you're a cherry X rank. Got awarded X medal? Well you didn't deserve it as much as this other guy. Just completed X training school? Well it was harder before you went and you didn't really earn the certification or title...
Dealing with this may motivate a young wide-eyed individual who views all those more senior individuals around him as heroes. However, once some experience is gained and the reality of things sets in in it becomes obvious that titles, awards, ranks, and certifications cannot define an individual's abilities, intelligence, reliability, or trustworthiness. The "never good enough" mindset becomes at the same time laughable and frustrating.
An individuals abilities in the military or any field can be very loosely assessed by their certifications (or titles / degrees) but only personal experience with the individual presents them in a true light. Checks and balances are integrated into the military to try to make sure an unworthy individual doesn't float through his career or get a job because he looks good on paper. Likewise, dive agencies and dive shop management must have checks and balances. Most do and the effectiveness is of course debatable but in the end, it is the agency's call whether or not to bestow a title on someone and a dive shop manager's/owner's call whether or not to employ them.
If you are a diver and feel that the title "Master" is too easily awarded then you already possess that knowledge. You already know that you are not going to blindly trust a diver because they have a cert with the word "Master" in it. Most experienced divers will know this as well. Now you can leave everyone else's opinion up to them. Let people be proud of their achievements and you can be proud of yours at the same time.

-EM

 

[Akimbo]

You are correct, just because it takes them a lifetime to earn the title, does that mean it really took them a lifetime to BECOME a master at whatever, or just took them that long to jump thru all the hoops to be allowed to officially GET the title?...

Perhaps; but it absolutely does not mean they could be apprentices as is the situation here.

 

[knowone]

So BRASHEAR did the work and POTUS got the ticket.