Master.........Really?

[Crowley]

I agree - titles are not the only side to the story.

Experience is, of course, a significant factor, but I would draw the following analogy with driving a car.

About 10 years ago there was a documentary in the UK about a woman who had failed her driving test about 30 times and was doing it again - she eventually, during a 1 hour examination, managed to make few enough mistakes that she passed her car driving test and got a license to drive.

Would I get in a car with this person ever? Never, no sir, no way.

Some people, on the other hand, get in a car and can drive comfortably and safely from day 1.

Of course experience is important, but what is also important is the understanding of what you are doing, and as I posted previously, being able to adapt what you know at the time to solving novel problems. This counts for a great deal, and should not be ignored in favour of labels and numbers. As somebody posted previously, as soon as you get in the water with somebody, you know....

Cheers

C.

 

[Max Speed]

Whenever someone questions me about my SpareAir I just flash my Master Diver Card...

 

[jar546]

Bingo. My thoughts exactly. I still believe experience counts for something. I recently finished up my IDC and there was an individual in it that had to complete 6 dives before class started. (100 logged dives are required prior to starting IDC). Of those 100 dives he had, 75 where completed in the same reservoir. Do you think that person will have the experience to teach others drift diving, wreck diving, etc. and have it be a quality lesson?
Just my .02

Do you think that will matter if he is going to stay in that same reservoir teaching?

 

[Searcaigh]

Bingo. My thoughts exactly. I still believe experience counts for something. I recently finished up my IDC and there was an individual in it that had to complete 6 dives before class started. (100 logged dives are required prior to starting IDC). Of those 100 dives he had, 75 where completed in the same reservoir. Do you think that person will have the experience to teach others drift diving, wreck diving, etc. and have it be a quality lesson?
Just my .02

I had over 100 dives before I started my AOW course.

 

[dead dog]

Whenever someone questions me about my SpareAir I just flash my Master Diver Card...

If your a " Master Diver " why would you need a spare air ?

 

[Bob DBF]

I had over 100 dives before I started my AOW course.

I was over 500, including what are now considered tech dives, before I started OW. It always amazes me how infallible DM's, instructors, and divers are after 100 dives when I can still have my a** handed to me in a heartbeat after all these years.

If your a " Master Diver " why would you need a spare air ?

To hangout with the cool kids?



Bob

 

[FinnMom]

Everyone should be used to advertising and titles by now. TV shows are full of "World Championships" in this, that and the other thing where some 6-10 people compete. If every winner from one these competitions is a "World Champion" then a "Master" Scuba Diver's title compared to content isn't bad at all.

BUT
The OP wrote "...But master diver before you are an instructor? Don't think so. This is my perception."
Being trained to instruct is exactly that, it doesn't teach diving skills except those relating to teaching, managing, handling students. Many OWD instructors have killed themselves (and some of their trusting buddies, occasionally even own children) over the years due to the misconception that being an instructor somehow made them qualified to do all sorts of of other things they were not qualified to do as a diver.

We get confused because many instructors, esp. those who frequent Scubaboard, are vastly experienced and have a wide range of training and competency. They didn't get there by just earning the qualifications to teach basic Open Water.

 

[Littlerayray]

I've got my aow cert my next step is rescue diver and that will only happen in a cpl yeas I have over 160 dives so far after my rescue diver cert I will get my DM cert and possibly instructor but that's only in the next ten years not planning on doing that anytime soon

 

[Diving Dubai]

You see this is why I prefer the BSAC learning structure. I'm not a BSAC evangelist, indeed even begin a member of a BSAC club I resisted joining the organisation for a significant time. And there are things I disagree with.

However in the context of this thread the BSAC structure seems better and is as follows

Ocean Diver - the entry level. Obviously teaches the basic of diving but includes Drysuit, Nitrox and basic recovery (bringing an incapacitated diver to the surface)

Sports Diver the next level adds to the above. With training to greater depth, DSMB shot lines, advanced navigation more recovery and tighter control of buoyancy for skills amongst others. Importantly basic decompression is taught

Then the departure from the PADI way

Dive Leader is more geared to ward managing a dive, yes your skills and dive knowledge get further refinement your rescue gets finished with O2 administration, but you are taught dive management. Not just leading dives but being the dive marshal on boats, understanding tides etc Planning for sites known to the club

Advanced Diver

Moves this further and you get to plan for expeditions to areas not dived by the club, the whole management of the trip

and finally

First Class Diver This is more of an assessment rather than a straight course with requiring must more rounded knowlege of divign and seaman ship.

As you can see from the above there in no mention of Instructors. In the BSAC way you don't have to be an instructor to reach the highest qualification. Once a Dive leader you are eligible to train as an open water instructor, and at advanced diver then you can become and Advanced open water instructor. so the Instructor grades are branches of the achievement path.

Obviously BSAC is hugely different from other agencies as it is based upon the club diving model, where clubs organised and run their own dives and thus the training is based around this.

But its always been an annoyance that with PADI you need to take a course for Nitrox, and Drysuit etc rather than them being embedded in the basic system.

To progress to each level there is a prerequisite of a number of hrs underwater after the completion of each course. So no Zero to Hero.

I don't like the Padi DM program where you can enter on 40 dives (12 of which would have been with an instructor) but there is no doubt that you do learn quite a few awareness skills, unfortunately a novice can look upon someone as a Diving God even though this diving God has only 60 dives and is really still learning a lot themselves. This isn't the fault of the persons taking the program, more the program. I do appreciate that for some 40 dives will take less than a year to achieve, for others multiple years

So for me I would prefer the Master Diver in PADI and even AoW to be a progression of really learning skills, and that a Mater Scuba Diver be something to be looked upon as an achievement rather than by buying cards.. It should in my mind at least allow someone to progress to the highest levels of Rec diving without wanting to become an instructor.

I guess not something easily marketed though

 

[EFX]

But its always been an annoyance that with PADI you need to take a course for Nitrox, and Drysuit etc rather than them being embedded in the basic system.

So for me I would prefer the Master Diver in PADI and even AoW to be a progression of really learning skills, and that a Mater Scuba Diver be something to be looked upon as an achievement rather than by buying cards.. It should in my mind at least allow someone to progress to the highest levels of Rec diving without wanting to become an instructor.

I guess not something easily marketed though

Yes! What you said in bold above. What you suggest for PADI's master program is what I and probably 90% of SB critics have been saying all along. But we forget who the target base is for PADI. They are the vacation divers who treat scuba diving as a pastime and not as a serious hobby. They could just as well go see a good movie than go diving for the afternoon. Their mindset is not one of proficiency, accumulated knowledge, a steady rise of skill level or for that matter even safety. These things that we think of as necessary and are as much fun as the diving itself, is a needless drudgery that's gets in the way of fun. By breaking up all the specialties in short concise courses the vacation diver gets just what he or she needs in a very simple and easily digestible format. The problem isn't that more advanced instruction wouldn't benefit these divers, but the marketing problem of trying to convince them they need to know modified frog kicks, be able to hover exactly 2 feet off the bottom while being perfectly horizontal, when they dive only twice a year. The benefit/cost ratio just isn't there.