Master.........Really?

[george_austin]

I can usually tell by the way someone dons their fins if they're a master diver or not - LOL.

 

[TMHeimer]

Having the spring straps, I haven't donned fins with buckles (other than in the pool) in years. With mitts on doing that I may come across as a not-so-great OW student. But if you're talking about method, depth in donning them, etc., I do agree. And I rarely come across any spots where I have to don fins on land or before being in 3-5 feet of water. "Come out a little further, there are waves breaking in there".......

 

[george_austin]

@TMHeimer
Well, actually the thread made me think of a boat trip last summer with newly minted "tech" divers onboard.
One of the guys stood up from the stern bench with the weight of all his equipment, 4 cylinders, lights, reels, straps, spare mask, spare regulator, spare snorkel, - etc . . .
He was all set for this 30 ft dive until he tried to don his Jet Fins - he pitched over and wiped out an entire row of students waiting to giant stride off the swim step.

 

[markmud]

@TMHeimer
Well, actually the thread made me think of a boat trip last summer with newly minted "tech" divers onboard.
One of the guys stood up from the stern bench with the weight of all his equipment, 4 cylinders, lights, reels, straps, spare mask, spare regulator, spare snorkel, - etc . . .
He was all set for this 30 ft dive until he tried to don his Jet Fins - he pitched over and wiped out an entire row of students waiting to giant stride off the swim step.

Hi George,

Whew!!! I was worried that you were in Monterey three weeks ago until I read that the new techy-in-question had a spare snorkel (and by deductive reasoning, he had a primary snorkel). REAL and newly minted "tech" divers don't carry snorkels. My instructor said so.

Otherwise, you may joke about my "newly minted" tech status at will.

My wife is a Master Scuba diver and she does not like it when I blurt-out in mixed company that she is a MASTER SCUBA DIVER! She knows it is a joke.

And, we have a few friends who like diving because there are so many people who they can rely on for their safety. It is a "no-worries" experience. PADI scored with lots of dependent OW and AOW divers by dumbing down the certs.

Now, I (markmud) pay for this system by automatically being treated like a Muppet diver while diving in a new environment the first day (and sometimes the second day if there is a new DM or skipper).

Last November, I was diving in Costa Rica. The DM was pretty cool. He was respectful and treated me very well. We had some enjoyable dives. I would dive with him anywhere (recreational limits only).

However, the other DM on the boat told me he was going to re-rig my kit (during the SI) as he knew better. I flat told him to leave my stuff alone. And when he restated his proposed action, I told him sternly: You are not touching my shi+t!

The disrespectful DM walked away and was intercepted by my DM. I got pieces of what my DM told him, and it was good stuff about my u/w skillset and to stay away from his charges.

I blame the system for this kind of treatment. The system as it exist now, is designed to create needy muppet divers that the industry then baby sits.

markm

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

The word "Master" tempts a student to purchase five "Specialties;" (we can disagree with that term too) so that they can purchase a plastic card which assures them that they are the "masters" of something.

 

[EFX]

Last November, I was diving in Costa Rica. The DM was pretty cool. He was respectful and treated me very well. We had some enjoyable dives. I would dive with him anywhere (recreational limits only).

However, the other DM on the boat told me he was going to re-rig my kit (during the SI) as he knew better. I flat told him to leave my stuff alone. And when he restated his proposed action, I told him sternly: You are not touching my shi+t!

The disrespectful DM walked away and was intercepted by my DM. I got pieces of what my DM told him, and it was good stuff about my u/w skillset and to stay away from his charges.

I blame the system for this kind of treatment. The system as it exist now, is designed to create needy muppet divers that the industry then baby sits. markm

Although I sympathize with you regarding your experience with that second DM I disagree with your statement above in bold. I remember being taught what you are supposed to do: being a self-sufficient diver, being buddy aware, etc. Go back and look through your books and I think you'll find that info in some form or another. The problem, as I see it, is the person not the system. It's the vacation diver who dives maybe twice a year who doesn't remember the training and depends on the DM to coddle and serve them. It's the DM who should be asking a diver if they need help assembling their gear. It's the instructor who glosses over the material to rush students through the course. Apparently, the system was working when you dove with the first DM.

 

[markmud]

Although I sympathize with you regarding your experience with that second DM I disagree with your statement above in bold. I remember being taught what you are supposed to do: being a self-sufficient diver, being buddy aware, etc. Go back and look through your books and I think you'll find that info in some form or another. The problem, as I see it, is the person not the system. It's the vacation diver who dives maybe twice a year who doesn't remember the training and depends on the DM to coddle and serve them. It's the DM who should be asking a diver if they need help assembling their gear. It's the instructor who glosses over the material to rush students through the course. Apparently, the system was working when you dove with the first DM.

Hello EFX:

Costa Rica DM...is that you?

No, I don't need to review my OW training book.

You and I have a basic disagreement and so far you have not been persuasive enough to change my mind.

To iterate: The system was designed to get the largest number of people involved in OW diving. Dependent personalities included. The dropout rate for Scuba divers is about 70% last time I checked.

For me, the system has flaws.

markm

 

[Neilwood]

For me , it is not so much the system that has flaws but the implementation of the general system that is flawed.

Too many students being pushed through a course with fairly major flaws being covered up or ignored (poor knowledge, poor buoyancy & trim etc).

With the system at the moment (as far as I am aware) the instructors are trained and then proceed to train students (with little QA checking being done other than feedback forms). If that is backed up with regular inspection or mystery shopper type checks (where the training can be physically monitored), the system becomes stronger as, at least at the back of their minds, instructors would know there is a chance of being pulled up for substandard performance.

 

[Diamond Reef]

Hardly a soul will disagree with you but it's like herding cats. There's no grand pub-ah of certification titles so it is what it is. Most involved divers recognize it for what it is and adjust accordingly. The content of Master Diver does vary widely across agencies.

Pete

However, there is one grand pub-ah form of true diver buoyancy skill recognition. Twenty five years ago the industry was't ready for the big test. The Diamond Reef® Diving ACE™ Seal. (ACE is an acronym for Awareness and Control thru Education.) It is an individually customized Notary Seal for official Diamond Reef® Educators/DiveCenters over a standard gold seal then signed by the testing 'DiveMarshall™' and diver to properly validate the participating diver's (including Master Instructors, Navy Seals, Jean-Michel Cousteau) logbook, only, after the diver has ace'd the International Diamond Reef® Challenge Course. The IDRCC is the diving world's only objective, comprehensive underwater test of skill. wwww.facebook.com/diamondreefsystem.

Read through all the posts, read the testimonials and watch the videos. Been around for 25 years and growing... Wanna be a pub-ah? Earn it in the location where you plan to dive, with the gear you intend to use. And guess what? It expires one year from date of issue! Want to really change the industry and highlight its' most significant flaws? Push the challenge on this and any other related dive site, and give this industry and its members a reality check. What it does is put this industry to work and makes it accountable. Many educators would rather certify than qualify. What do you think?

 

[EFX]

Hello EFX:

Greetings!

Costa Rica DM...is that you?

I could be. Do you owe him money?

For me, the system has flaws:
To iterate: The system was designed to get the largest number of people involved in OW diving. Dependent personalities included. The dropout rate for Scuba divers is about 70% last time I checked.

So then, a good system would:
♦ Get the fewest people involved in OW diving.
♦ Administer psychological tests to keep dependent personalities out.
♦ Reduce the dropout rate.

They could pick up the divers, give them breakfast and take them to the dive site. They could always ensure they have the good buddies and give them money to buy their gear. Yeah, that should reduce the dropout rate. But wait a minute. We can't do that because that would produce a dependent personality. Uh-oh! What can we do?