Master Diver Certification

[syntaxerrorsix]

If I told you some of the things I've done and how I did 'em you'd probably be to stunned to post. I'm not at ease with a young kid being exposed to large amounts of N absorbed in their bodies, she's not my kid so it's not my business. That's exactly correct I lack formal training for most of what I've done and still do today because the formal training wasn't available when I started diving. I just took AWO last year after 41 years of diving because the dive OP owners that took me out in the past have mostly all retired and the new ones are...well...like you. That was $300.00 dollars I shouldn't have had to spend.

You expect dive ops to base their risk assessment and liability off the fact that you're to cheap to spend the money on AOW to prove your skills and get certified? I've got news for you, just because you've been doing it for 30 years doesn't mean you've been doing it right, maybe you have or maybe you've been lucky. Maybe you should consider why we have standards and instructors. I can assure you it isn't to get rich off the pathetic amount of profit gained from training classes.

 

[Cetus]

Look, if you don't want to listen to any of us, please talk to your GUE instructor-mentor. I guarantee that s/he will tell you that dive was dangerous for both of you.

Don't confuse not replying to assaults with not listening. Even a-holes have a point.

- it was a decompression dive in the technical sense of the word

This is why I called it a technical dive in my first post.

- your continued insistence that what you did was just fine, in the face of so much concern, shows an unwillingness to look at yourself objectively.

Would you please be so kind as to providing any evidence of the "continued insistence?"

I hope you move forward with your training and let us know how it goes. If you do, I believe you will be surprised when you come back and read this thread, at how differently you look at things.

Yes I have and yes I will.

Btw-and I recognize this is picking a nit- but it goes to the overall issue at play here... I personally wouldn't call my setup "GUE-compliant" with a 28% and 40% mix. IJS

By "setup" I mean "equipment configuration." Gas planning varies depending on the dive.

 

[BDSC]

maybe you've been lucky.

I'm pretty sure if he has been diving for over 40 years and is still around and diving today, luck has nothing to do with it.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

I'm pretty sure if he has been diving for over 40 years and is still around and diving today, luck has nothing to do with it.

That doesn't change the fact that proper training is currently available and some dive ops require it. Nor does it change the fact that his model of progression in no way reflects how we should be encouraging new divers to learn today.

 

[theduckguru]

You expect dive ops to base their risk assessment and liability off the fact that you're to cheap to spend the money on AOW to prove your skills and get certified? I've got news for you, just because you've been doing it for 30 years doesn't mean you've been doing it right, maybe you have or maybe you've been lucky. Maybe you should consider why we have standards and instructors. I can assure you it isn't to get rich off the pathetic amount of profit gained from training classes.

You should pull out a beginners scuba diving book from 40 years ago. You might be suprised what has and has not changed.

 

[BDSC]

That doesn't change the fact that proper training is currently available and some dive ops require it. Nor does it change the fact that his model of progression in no way reflects how we should be encouraging new divers to learn today.

So do you think all new divers should take the "next class" from an instructor or do you think people can just learn from diving, either on their own or with a more experienced diver?

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

You should pull out a beginners scuba diving book from 40 years ago. You might be suprised what has and has not changed.

So do you think all new divers should take the "next class" from an instructor or do you think people can just learn from diving, either on their own or with a more experienced diver?

I wouldn't be surprised in the least. What I am surprised by are the amount of people that think they are qualified to teach themselves a skill with such a high potential for catastrophic failure. 40 years ago we lacked the infrastructure, training material and empirical evidence we so readily have today.

Yes BDSC the next class should be taught by someone who knows how to do it. Whether that's a more experienced diver or an instructor. What should NOT happen is the blind leading the blind which is what the OP did by bringing his daughter on a trust me dive without any formal training or experience. His judgment is lacking in mine and several other's opinion.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

That doesn't change the fact that proper training is currently available and some dive ops require it. Nor does it change the fact that his model of progression in no way reflects how we should be encouraging new divers to learn today.

I am less convinced about this. There are some key courses today that you should take to progress because things change drastically when you exceed the restrictions that were previously placed on you. I would include OW, Nitrox, Deco, Wreck and Cave in the key courses.

The rest really can be learnt through gradual progression. If you are OW and comfortable, I don't see why you can't push into night diving or 130 ft diving through gradual progression and experience.

In fact, once new divers have their OW, we should encourage them to learn through progression as Afterdark did. They just need to respect the no overhead (deco, wreck penetration, cave) limit of their training.

 

[BDSC]

Yes BDSC the next class should be taught by someone who knows how to do it. Whether that's a more experienced diver or an instructor. What should NOT happen is the blind leading the blind

I totally agree. I think some learning should be done from a more formal approach. If I were going to cave dive I'd take the course. A lot of other diving (recreational) can be learned from a formal method with classes and such but a lot of it can be learned from just diving or diving with someone who has the experience.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

I am less convinced about this. There are some key courses today that you should take to progress because things change drastically when you exceed the restrictions there were previously placed on you. I would include OW, Nitrox, Deco, Wreck and Cave in the key courses.

The rest really can be learnt through gradual progression. If you are OW and comfortable, I don't see why you can't push into night diving or 130 ft diving through gradual progression and experience.

In fact, once new divers have their OW, we should courage them to learn through progression as Afterdark did. They just need to respect the no overhead (deco, wreck penetration, cave) limit of their training.

I don't consider classes such as night diving, fish ID, drift diving, drysuit diving and the like unobtainable by the average diver. Neither do I feel that a class is an absolute necessity for using doubles which is why I never brought it up.

Overhead environments hard or soft is at the heart of the conversation. It was more than apparent that the OP had no idea how to plan the dive and as was mentioned previously he was playing technical while using recreational tools. It was nothing more than the blind leading the blind.

---------- Post added January 21st, 2013 at 01:24 PM ----------

I totally agree. I think some learning should be done from a more formal approach. If I were going to cave dive I'd take the course. A lot of other diving (recreational) can be learned from a formal method with classes and such but a lot of it can be learned from just diving or diving with someone who has the experience.

I agree.