Mass confusion about computers????

[dmaziuk]

Don't you think that extra info would be useful to the people whom you tell that you use a Cressi and never find yourself to be limited by its algorithm?

Almost nobody whining about having tens of minutes less ndl with conservative rgbm computers posts the profiles and schedules on which they got soo limited. Why should I be any different?

Look at the hype Craig's been fueling up (and you yourself were helping at one point) -- Eric "has not been limited" by his puck but he's now "afraid that he might" at some point see a single-digit number on his computer's NDL display. And then what, the sky'll fall and he'll want his mommy? Everyone gets bent into a hundred nazi crosses?

I've been doing "IT" for almost 3 decades now and IME 90+% computer issues are PEBCAK. It is very hard for me to believe that dive computers and/or divers are so radically different.

 

[dmaziuk]

True.

Yet another layer of complexity. Why do divers 'fly their computers'?

-Because they have no hope of understanding them.

"Understanding is not required. Only obedience."

Although if I had to go there, I'd feel much safer flying a "conservative" computer than a "liberal" one.

 

[lowviz]

...//... Although if I had to go there, I'd feel much safer flying a "conservative" computer than a "liberal" one.

@Eric Sedletzky You may or may not be familiar with this term. It has nothing to do with the 'no fly time' that your DC offers.

'Riding' or 'flying' your computer, at its worst, would be jumping in with no gas plan, no dive plan, and no ascent protocol. You just do whatever you wish while keeping just behind your NDL. This includes going back down deeper because you were just credited several more minutes due to an ascent. But you did always obey your DC. Dangerous, but not uncommon, practice.

 

[tursiops]

Almost nobody whining about having tens of minutes less ndl with conservative rgbm computers posts the profiles and schedules on which they got soo limited. Why should I be any different?

Look at the hype Craig's been fueling up (and you yourself were helping at one point) -- Eric "has not been limited" by his puck but he's now "afraid that he might" at some point see a single-digit number on his computer's NDL display. And then what, the sky'll fall and he'll want his mommy? Everyone gets bent into a hundred nazi crosses?

I've been doing "IT" for almost 3 decades now and IME 90+% computer issues are PEBCAK. It is very hard for me to believe that dive computers and/or divers are so radically different.

LOL! You need to get out more!
I go on lots of group dive trips with 3-6 dives a day, day after day. The Suunto and Mares (and sometimes Cressi) divers really feel put upon with the limited NDLs their computers are giving them after a few days of this. Although, the worst I've seen was two ladies who had just purchased identical computers, dived side-by-side, and one of them was being told to come up quite early compared to the other. Turns out the early-up lady had set her computer on an altitude setting, so it was being super conservative at sea level on her behalf.

 

[lermontov]

I personally think that is a legitimate concern, in general. Especially with a Shearwater. They are so reliable that it is (or becomes) very tempting to just rely on what it says and not bother to do any mental gymnastics to sanity check it. After a few years of diving with one, I could easily see getting so "relaxed" that you get really rusty on said mental gymnastics.

.

@Eric Sedletzky You may or may not be familiar with this term. It has nothing to do with the 'no fly time' that your DC offers.

'Riding' or 'flying' your computer, at its worst, would be jumping in with no gas plan, no dive plan, and no ascent protocol. You just do whatever you wish while keeping just behind your NDL. This includes going back down deeper because you were just credited several more minutes due to an ascent. But you did always obey your DC. Dangerous, but not uncommon, practice.

These two posts pretty much sum up the potential direction of the average rec diver- add to that the AI technology and all its ease of computer assisted diving its a classic case of where our society is heading - more and more reliant on technology to make decisions for us- having said that I embrace new technology as a great tool to make life easier -the next step is a SIRI type dive buddy to tell you when to ascend and calculates your RMV and gas management in real time "Hello diver you can stay at this depth for only 4 minutes "
"hello diver you are a approaching 21m do you wish to do a gas switch here?" "hello diver you have now exceeded your allowable depth and i must now auto inflate your BCD"

 

[tridacna]

These two posts pretty much sum up the potential direction of the average rec diver- add to that the AI technology and all its ease of computer assisted diving its a classic case of where our society is heading - more and more reliant on technology to make decisions for us- having said that I embrace new technology as a great tool to make life easier -the next step is a SIRI type dive buddy to tell you when to ascend and calculates your RMV and gas management in real time "Hello diver you can stay at this depth for only 4 minutes "
"hello diver you are a approaching 21m do you wish to do a gas switch here?" "hello diver you have now exceeded your allowable depth and i must now auto inflate your BCD"

I guess that we’ll never have self-driving cars either. Yawn.

Topic has now reached the end of its useful life.

 

[dmaziuk]

... Although, the worst I've seen was two ladies who had just purchased identical computers, dived side-by-side, and one of them was being told to come up quite early compared to the other. Turns out the early-up lady had set her computer on an altitude setting, so it was being super conservative at sea level on her behalf.

QED

 

[KeithG]

QED

Unfortunately obedience is not a slam dunk. There are a non trivial number of divers that do not understand what the numbers on their computer mean.

On my last LOB trip one diver had to sit out a day since he skipped mandatory deco stop(s) and locked out his computer. He was not mad. He saw it as a learning opportunity since he readily admitted he had no idea that he went into deco, nor what he should do.

I later asked the DMs and they indicated this generally happens every few weeks.

 

[dmaziuk]

Unfortunately obedience is not a slam dunk. There are a non trivial number of divers that do not understand what the numbers on their computer mean.

On my last LOB trip one diver had to sit out a day since he skipped mandatory deco stop(s) and locked out his computer. He was not mad. He saw it as a learning opportunity since he readily admitted he had no idea that he went into deco, nor what he should do.

I later asked the DMs and they indicated this generally happens every few weeks.

Again, Q.E.D.

Don't get me wrong, Leonardo's manual comes with e.g. this little nugget: "For your own safety, it is important to avoid diving for more than two tomes a day. A rest of at least 2 hours between two subsequent dives is mandatory. The next/repetitive dive shall be shallower and its minimum (sic) duration shall be 15 minutes." I'm not defending it in any way, but clearly: you have been warned.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

@Eric Sedletzky You may or may not be familiar with this term. It has nothing to do with the 'no fly time' that your DC offers.

'Riding' or 'flying' your computer, at its worst, would be jumping in with no gas plan, no dive plan, and no ascent protocol. You just do whatever you wish while keeping just behind your NDL. This includes going back down deeper because you were just credited several more minutes due to an ascent. But you did always obey your DC. Dangerous, but not uncommon, practice.

Yes I know what “Flying the Computer” is. Unfortunately too many divers do this because they figure their computer won’t let them get into trouble, and it does all the figuring so they don’t have to. They ride the maximum NDL’s right to the edge of mandatory deco. This is an inherent problem with a device that can compute and recompute every few seconds to maximize bottom time when given to someone with no basic understanding of saturation and deco.
Get someone out of shape, hung over, overweight, smoker, bad circulation, or a host of other maladies on a multi day trip flying the computer and you have the reason why something like the el cheapo Mares is so time shy. I’m sure they sell a ton of them. I think they have to design their algorithms based on the lowest common denominator.