cdolphin, the additional details make the whole thing far more clear (and ugly). And Peter wasn't yelling. If he yells at you, you'll know. I live with him, so I do 
Mask clearing-finding out the hard way
- Thread starter cookenup
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cookenup
first off congrats on getting through your cert and not giving up.
I do have to agree with Guy though.
For any new divers or anyone considering diving, you really should be a decent swimmer. At the very least have an efficient energy saving stroke such as a front crawl (freestyle), breast stroke or side stroke that you can do efficiently. And be comfortable in and UNDER the water.
Learning scuba and not being comfortable in/around/under water is a bad idea. Just reading your post and seeing your reaction "Yikes!!!" to taking your mask off
and especially
" I was already freaked out, so when that really cold water hit my nose...I immediately shot for the surface, choking on water, thought I was going to drown!!!"
I'll have to admit I got a wide mix of emotions.
That right there is an instructors worst nightmare. I myself am not an instructor, but have had to TA a few scuba classes at my university. Seeing a student bolt to the surface, even from 8 ft of water, gets your heart racing. It's basically a helpless feeling from the instructors point of view; all they can do is hope to a higher power that that student remembers to exhale on the way up.
Your instructor failed her job when she discouraged you. I don't think she should have said what she said, rather she should have encouraged and given you some constructive criticism.
However looking from her point of view I'm sure the event put a lot of stress on her as well.
In any case you're certified and you're safe. Get comfortable in the water. Happy Diving!
first off congrats on getting through your cert and not giving up.
I do have to agree with Guy though.
For any new divers or anyone considering diving, you really should be a decent swimmer. At the very least have an efficient energy saving stroke such as a front crawl (freestyle), breast stroke or side stroke that you can do efficiently. And be comfortable in and UNDER the water.
Learning scuba and not being comfortable in/around/under water is a bad idea. Just reading your post and seeing your reaction "Yikes!!!" to taking your mask off
and especially
" I was already freaked out, so when that really cold water hit my nose...I immediately shot for the surface, choking on water, thought I was going to drown!!!"
I'll have to admit I got a wide mix of emotions.
That right there is an instructors worst nightmare. I myself am not an instructor, but have had to TA a few scuba classes at my university. Seeing a student bolt to the surface, even from 8 ft of water, gets your heart racing. It's basically a helpless feeling from the instructors point of view; all they can do is hope to a higher power that that student remembers to exhale on the way up.
Your instructor failed her job when she discouraged you. I don't think she should have said what she said, rather she should have encouraged and given you some constructive criticism.
However looking from her point of view I'm sure the event put a lot of stress on her as well.
In any case you're certified and you're safe. Get comfortable in the water. Happy Diving!
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I'd also like to add that as long as you have your reg in your mouth, you can choke, cough, spit and probably even vomit into it and still be able to take your breaths in between. Another great reason why it's important to be comfortable underwater. If you have the air, there really no reason to bust your ass to the top.
In regards to:
For anyone looking at this, depending on your location you may not have a choice. Some places just don't get good vis. like this. In Monterey I'm lucky if I get 15'. And if I get more there's usually kelp to darken the place.
Weather also plays an important role, overcast skies can easily change a 20' vis.
Having said that however it's important to remember that no one should ever force you to dive.
Most important thing I think a diver should remember is that he/she can always call a dive. Most of us are not commercial divers, we don't have a job to do down there, rather we do this for fun.
If your basic OW instructor doesn't tell you this then honestly I don't think they're doing a full committed job.
In regards to:
For anyone looking at this, depending on your location you may not have a choice. Some places just don't get good vis. like this. In Monterey I'm lucky if I get 15'. And if I get more there's usually kelp to darken the place.
Weather also plays an important role, overcast skies can easily change a 20' vis.
Having said that however it's important to remember that no one should ever force you to dive.
Most important thing I think a diver should remember is that he/she can always call a dive. Most of us are not commercial divers, we don't have a job to do down there, rather we do this for fun.
If your basic OW instructor doesn't tell you this then honestly I don't think they're doing a full committed job.
jcfahy
Contributor
The fear of swimming without the mask is so common. I was a surfer from an early age in California and I had the same fear when I went through the OW cert. I found that the easiest way to overcome the fear was to remove the mask, keep your eyes open, look around and then swim as if you were in a pool. Once I could see and remain oriented, the fear evaporated. I agree that this worked for me because the visibility was about 20 metres and a low vis environment would have been more daunting. Thanks for your insight.
Another way is to not go into scuba until you have already gotten comfortable with removing and replacing the mask while snorkeling. By the time I have students on scuba they have already spent time breathing through a snorkel with no mask. The removing and replacing the mask while stationary on snorkel, and finally tossing the mask out ahead of them and letting it sink to the bottom. Then they swim underwater to it, pick it up, put it on, clear, and have the snorkel breathable by the time they surface so that they do not have to lift their head out of the water.
On scuba we start the same way. Just breathing at the surface with no maks and face in the water, then laying on the bottom in the shallow end just breathing with no mask. Then comes clearing on scuba while horizontal and neutral. Buoyancy control and neutral buoyancy along with the basics of trim come before any other scuba skills.
As for the tendency to bolt that is why students are in buddy pairs from day one and no one does anything without their buddy within arms reach. Even though I am the one who will respond the buddy is taught from the beginning to be in postion to respond as well.
On scuba we start the same way. Just breathing at the surface with no maks and face in the water, then laying on the bottom in the shallow end just breathing with no mask. Then comes clearing on scuba while horizontal and neutral. Buoyancy control and neutral buoyancy along with the basics of trim come before any other scuba skills.
As for the tendency to bolt that is why students are in buddy pairs from day one and no one does anything without their buddy within arms reach. Even though I am the one who will respond the buddy is taught from the beginning to be in postion to respond as well.
cookenup,
You have some good observations that leave me with concerns. All of the conditions you place on accomplishing the skills like water temperature and how you let water in are setting you up for a bigger fall. You will not have the luxury of those accommodations when your mask gets kicked or otherwise dislodged. Training is intended to certify you to dive in your actual conditions.
Thumbs down to the harsh DM.
Bravo to the patient instructor.
The pool session is the nugget here. The whole mask off deal is one that responds to repeated exposure. The more you do it the more you realize you can survive it. It's important to remember that to inhale with a wet face in contrary to your human instincts. Some have a hard time getting over this with a mask. Quite a few need to work through it as you did. When you go out to do it in cooler water those same instincts come screaming bask louder than ever. That is when you need to tell yourself that temperature is the only difference and just breathe and do your thing. As long as you have air to breathe anything else is just an inconvenience.
Pete
You have some good observations that leave me with concerns. All of the conditions you place on accomplishing the skills like water temperature and how you let water in are setting you up for a bigger fall. You will not have the luxury of those accommodations when your mask gets kicked or otherwise dislodged. Training is intended to certify you to dive in your actual conditions.
Thumbs down to the harsh DM.
Bravo to the patient instructor.
The pool session is the nugget here. The whole mask off deal is one that responds to repeated exposure. The more you do it the more you realize you can survive it. It's important to remember that to inhale with a wet face in contrary to your human instincts. Some have a hard time getting over this with a mask. Quite a few need to work through it as you did. When you go out to do it in cooler water those same instincts come screaming bask louder than ever. That is when you need to tell yourself that temperature is the only difference and just breathe and do your thing. As long as you have air to breathe anything else is just an inconvenience.
Pete
Since my negative ow mask clearing experience, and received my cert, I have had 8 successful dives, including 1 shore dive and 4 boat dives in Cozumel. I have cleared my mask multiple times, and let water in to clear my mask purposely. I have read all your great comments regarding my first post, and still have to say that even now, when I go into very poor visibility, cold water, I still find it muc more difficult to mask clear in these conditions, I just feel more claustropobic. I have a clear, wide mask which also seems to help with this. I had no concerns of mask loss at 70 feet, and in the clear, warmer water, it is just more comfortable, you are able to think calmer.
I definately think all instructors should teach swimming without a mask early on in the pool exercises, and repeating it often during pool.
I think it helps to be comfortable in the water, but I don't think you need to be a really good swimmer, or be a free diver to scuba dive. I do think you have to be pretty comfortable with your face under water to scuba. I did practice diving in the pool with snorkel and no mask quite a bit while in class, and I will continue to do so often at my local pool, I think that is just smart and safe, especially because I seem to be fond of deeper diving! My last dive was a 70 foot drift dive, and I was sorry I did not have time for the 85 foot wall dive, but it's ok, cause I will go back to Cozumel...
I did want to comment on anothers post here regarding the buddy who swam off for shore...I have had similar experiences several times, and find it very scary, and unacceptable. It is really important to buddy with someone who will be there with you if something happens, and is aware of where you are. If you have a buddy who is way ahead of you, 5 feet above you, as I did on one recent dive, it makes the dive tense, at least for me, when I have to think of who is the nearest person to me, if an emergency should arise.
I feel I could probably calmly handle many of the emergent situations I have learned as long as I have a responsible, alert buddy near me, when I don't, I am definately not relaxed.
I definately think all instructors should teach swimming without a mask early on in the pool exercises, and repeating it often during pool.
I think it helps to be comfortable in the water, but I don't think you need to be a really good swimmer, or be a free diver to scuba dive. I do think you have to be pretty comfortable with your face under water to scuba. I did practice diving in the pool with snorkel and no mask quite a bit while in class, and I will continue to do so often at my local pool, I think that is just smart and safe, especially because I seem to be fond of deeper diving! My last dive was a 70 foot drift dive, and I was sorry I did not have time for the 85 foot wall dive, but it's ok, cause I will go back to Cozumel...
I did want to comment on anothers post here regarding the buddy who swam off for shore...I have had similar experiences several times, and find it very scary, and unacceptable. It is really important to buddy with someone who will be there with you if something happens, and is aware of where you are. If you have a buddy who is way ahead of you, 5 feet above you, as I did on one recent dive, it makes the dive tense, at least for me, when I have to think of who is the nearest person to me, if an emergency should arise.
I feel I could probably calmly handle many of the emergent situations I have learned as long as I have a responsible, alert buddy near me, when I don't, I am definately not relaxed.
drl
Contributor
My instructor made us start every pool session with an exercise he called "kissing the water." On the surface, in full gear, we would put our regs in, take our masks off, stick our faces in the water and just breathe through the reg for a full minute. The first couple of times it was a very long minute! We all hated kissing the water, but we did get accustomed to the fact that having no mask on does not affect your ability to breathe through your regulator, which helped a lot when it came to mask removal and replacement.
Your lizard brain tells you that if you have water on your face you can't breathe, which leads to panic when the mask is off. You have to retrain your thinking brain to know that it isn't so when there is a regulator in your mouth, and for many people this takes repetition.
Your lizard brain tells you that if you have water on your face you can't breathe, which leads to panic when the mask is off. You have to retrain your thinking brain to know that it isn't so when there is a regulator in your mouth, and for many people this takes repetition.
Only read the topic headed and the post he made...
One thing in life we all need to learn is never give up. I have less than 50 dives under me but Ive dove dang near everytype of clarity and recreational depth and currents. Thing about Scuba is you need to be exposed then on your own learn the basics in class and beyond.
When I got my OW cert I had some of those "Im a Scuba Diver" guys in my class. We all sat on the bottom of the pool, relaxed and done the tasks. Clearing the mask is one of those basic tasks you will do everytime you get in or near water. These guys were only doing the task when the instructor asked to perform. I knew those were the ones who will get me in trouble.
You must make effort to attempt and learn these at your speed! These same fellas were on my AOW certs too. since they were OW drivers now they knew it all. As we attempted to dive in 3-4 foot seas never jumped off a boat, suited in 90 degree heat, hot and stressed and nervous.... all adds up to a lot of air sucking! Well these guys bailed off and I then, as we all went down and enjoyed this new world my SPG showed me 1100psi at 130 fsw, and I motioned to the DM I was going up. So I was first off to the safety stop. Short but fun, had to clear mask down there and it was just awesome. First in the boat, the others popped up one by one... one of the New SCUBA DIVERS had a blinking Computer and one of them had reluctantly used the DM as his Air Source on the return! Yeah these two bozos either decoed or sucked it dry on the first AOW dive. So, when you see these guys who are arrogant and know it all, and you are the one with the issue of water on the nose without air or mask, you will be the one who will get it right, you have conquered the fears, experienced the panic and now know what to expect and thus making you a better diver.
Practice practice practice, even if its in a kiddy pool. get ya head under water in ya face and your brain will figure it out soon. Close your eyes and think, pause, relax.... I agree with your dive master in training though, until you Master or execute the task, I wouldnt pass you. If you paniced at 60fsw without a mask, and didnt follow some safety you might not ever dive again or breathe! So these are for your safety, not for her notching you as another passed student. Scuba isnt for everyone. read the books, watch videos of panics and situations, beaware cause it may be just a simple fin to the face and your all screwed up.... it can happen! Know where your regs are and your pressure.
When you really want to test yourself find something like chocolate milk, no viz period, some gators and loggerhead turtles, mulchy leafy bottoms 2 feet deep and logs.... talk about pucker time! LOL No need for a light! Its freaky but if you have something to look for thats fun! Nothing like a Mastodon tooth shining as you rise to the surface!
My opinion is do it at your speed. Its new to the brain. Its uncertain, dark and sometimes very dang spooky but all in all if you master the basics you should live! remember the tasks, you never know when you might get lost and have to rely on the training. Dont get discouraged by the Instructors words. She meant no harm, it happens. Some people just cant do it. If you cant pass the tasks you become a liability for your dive partner. Now your bringing in danger for both of you. If you dove with me I want you to know these, and all of my partners want the same too. "Babysitting" deep, entangled, and without a mask is not good news! Once you figure out the breathing and the proper way to clear the mask its so freaking easy its funny!
Have fun, Its a wonderful place.
Steve
One thing in life we all need to learn is never give up. I have less than 50 dives under me but Ive dove dang near everytype of clarity and recreational depth and currents. Thing about Scuba is you need to be exposed then on your own learn the basics in class and beyond.
When I got my OW cert I had some of those "Im a Scuba Diver" guys in my class. We all sat on the bottom of the pool, relaxed and done the tasks. Clearing the mask is one of those basic tasks you will do everytime you get in or near water. These guys were only doing the task when the instructor asked to perform. I knew those were the ones who will get me in trouble.
You must make effort to attempt and learn these at your speed! These same fellas were on my AOW certs too. since they were OW drivers now they knew it all. As we attempted to dive in 3-4 foot seas never jumped off a boat, suited in 90 degree heat, hot and stressed and nervous.... all adds up to a lot of air sucking! Well these guys bailed off and I then, as we all went down and enjoyed this new world my SPG showed me 1100psi at 130 fsw, and I motioned to the DM I was going up. So I was first off to the safety stop. Short but fun, had to clear mask down there and it was just awesome. First in the boat, the others popped up one by one... one of the New SCUBA DIVERS had a blinking Computer and one of them had reluctantly used the DM as his Air Source on the return! Yeah these two bozos either decoed or sucked it dry on the first AOW dive. So, when you see these guys who are arrogant and know it all, and you are the one with the issue of water on the nose without air or mask, you will be the one who will get it right, you have conquered the fears, experienced the panic and now know what to expect and thus making you a better diver.
Practice practice practice, even if its in a kiddy pool. get ya head under water in ya face and your brain will figure it out soon. Close your eyes and think, pause, relax.... I agree with your dive master in training though, until you Master or execute the task, I wouldnt pass you. If you paniced at 60fsw without a mask, and didnt follow some safety you might not ever dive again or breathe! So these are for your safety, not for her notching you as another passed student. Scuba isnt for everyone. read the books, watch videos of panics and situations, beaware cause it may be just a simple fin to the face and your all screwed up.... it can happen! Know where your regs are and your pressure.
When you really want to test yourself find something like chocolate milk, no viz period, some gators and loggerhead turtles, mulchy leafy bottoms 2 feet deep and logs.... talk about pucker time! LOL No need for a light! Its freaky but if you have something to look for thats fun! Nothing like a Mastodon tooth shining as you rise to the surface!
My opinion is do it at your speed. Its new to the brain. Its uncertain, dark and sometimes very dang spooky but all in all if you master the basics you should live! remember the tasks, you never know when you might get lost and have to rely on the training. Dont get discouraged by the Instructors words. She meant no harm, it happens. Some people just cant do it. If you cant pass the tasks you become a liability for your dive partner. Now your bringing in danger for both of you. If you dove with me I want you to know these, and all of my partners want the same too. "Babysitting" deep, entangled, and without a mask is not good news! Once you figure out the breathing and the proper way to clear the mask its so freaking easy its funny!
Have fun, Its a wonderful place.
Steve
dburg30
Contributor
I know this is an issue with many new divers, and I know it's going to be my 'gut check' thing. But I've been doing everything I can to get used to it. I started just getting used to breathing thru a snorkel.. Mask and snorkel, just tooling around the pool.. Then I ditched the mask and just hung on the side of the pool and started breathing thru the snorkel and put my face in the water. Got that all too familiar feel of water going in my nose and stood up.. Cussed at myself a few minutes, got back under control and here we go again.......breathing.. kneel down.. face forward... face in water... that feeling again... BUT this time REALLY concentrated on continuing to breath thru the snorkel and just let it go for a few breaths... Stood up again with a little bit of pride. Back down again, this time the feel didnt get me.. Nice slow breathing.. in... out... in... out.... Cool.. I'm breathing thru a snorkel, face in the water (ears covered too).. Really nice and relaxed.. Actually started 'pushing and pulling' myself back and forth (still holding onto the side of the pool ) Stand up and start to get it. Plus, since my nose doesnt want water up it anymore then I do. have a snot barrier so good luck getting thru THAT water!! 
About an hour of that and mask goes back on... Putting around the pool... Then I stop, calm myself down, reach up and crack the bottom of the mask... let water in so it's over my nose, but not over my eyes... WOW, NO PANIC!!! This is cool.. Swim around for a while with my nose in water... Decide to clear it, no problem (well not too much, have to ask the best way to clear in certain positions). Swim a while.. partial flood.. swim.. clear etc.. probably 1/2 hour 45 minutes of that.. Also had tried some stuff with my eyes open, but the water literally was just killing my eyes and making it almost impossible for my. Dont know if it's just me or the pool not being 100% right yet (bro just opened it a week ago). I used to swim with eyes open no problems, so I just think the water is a bit off yet. So try to snorkel while swimming with no mask, but have a hard time with that since the water is killing my eyes, and really no fun just running into stuff with eyes closed. So that was last night. This AM trip to wally world, pair of swimming goggles later, NOW I can at least see while I'm snorkeling with my nose exposed. Very first time had a little hesitation but would just snorkel around with face in the water, nose exposed for like 10 minutes at a time.. Would even do the 'free dive' (in a 3 foot pool) Take a few breaths, go vertical, to the bottom... swim along and then come back up, clear snorkel and keep going face never out of water.. Then the biggie came. Mask back on.. Cruising around... crack the seal on the mask.. let the water in... then more.. then more.. then a full mask... slow breaths... full mask... exhale out nose... Kinda worked.. out nose again... better.. out nose one more time.. WOOHOO.. cleared mask (eyes closed, I know I need to get them open!!)
Few times doing that.. back to just having fun.. Then the biggie... crack mask.... flood... pull mask off.. keep cruising head in water.. again eyes closed.. 5 or 6 deep ins and outs.. put mask back on.. strap in place.. nice breath.. took 3 times to clear BUT I did it.. repeated a number of times.....
Now, this long winded story is probably boring to a LOT of you, but to me... It just shows me that I CAN and WILL do this. I'm not cocky, but I am not longer anxious / in a panic about this skill.. I may flub it the first try, BUT I KNOW I can do this.. I am sooo looking forward to class now!!!!
Thanks for reading!!!
) Stand up and start to get it. Plus, since my nose doesnt want water up it anymore then I do. have a snot barrier so good luck getting thru THAT water!! About an hour of that and mask goes back on... Putting around the pool... Then I stop, calm myself down, reach up and crack the bottom of the mask... let water in so it's over my nose, but not over my eyes... WOW, NO PANIC!!! This is cool.. Swim around for a while with my nose in water... Decide to clear it, no problem (well not too much, have to ask the best way to clear in certain positions). Swim a while.. partial flood.. swim.. clear etc.. probably 1/2 hour 45 minutes of that.. Also had tried some stuff with my eyes open, but the water literally was just killing my eyes and making it almost impossible for my. Dont know if it's just me or the pool not being 100% right yet (bro just opened it a week ago). I used to swim with eyes open no problems, so I just think the water is a bit off yet. So try to snorkel while swimming with no mask, but have a hard time with that since the water is killing my eyes, and really no fun just running into stuff with eyes closed. So that was last night. This AM trip to wally world, pair of swimming goggles later, NOW I can at least see while I'm snorkeling with my nose exposed. Very first time had a little hesitation but would just snorkel around with face in the water, nose exposed for like 10 minutes at a time.. Would even do the 'free dive' (in a 3 foot pool) Take a few breaths, go vertical, to the bottom... swim along and then come back up, clear snorkel and keep going face never out of water.. Then the biggie came. Mask back on.. Cruising around... crack the seal on the mask.. let the water in... then more.. then more.. then a full mask... slow breaths... full mask... exhale out nose... Kinda worked.. out nose again... better.. out nose one more time.. WOOHOO.. cleared mask (eyes closed, I know I need to get them open!!)Few times doing that.. back to just having fun.. Then the biggie... crack mask.... flood... pull mask off.. keep cruising head in water.. again eyes closed.. 5 or 6 deep ins and outs.. put mask back on.. strap in place.. nice breath.. took 3 times to clear BUT I did it.. repeated a number of times.....
Now, this long winded story is probably boring to a LOT of you, but to me... It just shows me that I CAN and WILL do this. I'm not cocky, but I am not longer anxious / in a panic about this skill.. I may flub it the first try, BUT I KNOW I can do this.. I am sooo looking forward to class now!!!!
Thanks for reading!!!
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