Mapping IANTD courses to SSI

[suricatasuricata]

Hi Folks,
New diver here. I have ~100 dives (mostly tropical dives in the Carribean). A PADI OW, Nitrox and IANTD's recreational essentials diver. I am trying to figure out what to do next in terms of learning and certifications. I separate the two because I realize for whatever reason I didn't really learn as much from the PADI OW + Nitrox courses that I took -- I found it incredibly hard (and rewarding) when I did the IANTD recreational essentials course.

I think there is still a lot for me to learn in terms of finning, trim, moving backwards etc. Having said this, I do also want to have fun and do more tourism dives. I found out from people I met during my most recent trip that some places (e.g. live aboards) do require an AOW certification or one that at least says that you can go deeper. So I am trying to figure out the best mix of getting that while ensuring that I learn some new skills.

I went to my LDS which is all SSI. They informed me that the way SSI works is that once I finish 4 specialities, I could get SSI's advanced adventurer cert, which I understand is comparable to PADI's AOW. Furthermore, they said that since I have a Nitrox cert (from PADI), I could "apply that" and only need to complete three more specialities to get the SSI's advanced adventurer cert. This got me thinking: I'd like to get more practice using my dry suit, get a dry suit certification as well in case I want rent one later. The Deep diving speciality does seem useful as well (both from a learning POV and a certification POV). Is it at all possible to map my IANTD's recreational essentials diver cert to something in SSI land? Closest that it seems to map to is the Perfect Buoyancy speciality from SSI, but I also can't find an "official mapping" that I can take to my LDS to talk about this.

If I can find such a mapping, seems like I can do some learning with the dry suit + deep diving specialities, get my AOW equivalent cert out of the way, then focus on taking more technical courses for learning and also maximizing my options in terms of fun dives.

Thanks in advance!

 

[sea_ledford]

You'll probably get a bunch of responses to this, but in general, any of the "complete 5 specialty certs and we'll give you a super duper diver card (for a small processing fee)" type of certifications are generally not well regarded. If there are specific reasons to get specific certs, either building skills, gaining knowledge, or jumping through hoops so you can do stuff, that's all good. But to scrape together a bunch of mostly useless things in order to get another mostly useless glory card? Not worth the effort.

If it's important to you, then go for it! It's your time and money to do with as you please, but trying to stuff a bunch of courses that don't meet the requirements kinda defeats the purpose. Just send SSI $50 and think of your card as "in process"

Nitrox is almost a requirement these days, Deep can be beneficial and is a pre-requisite for some classes, drysuit is one that is good for skipping a bunch of pain leanring on your own, and as you say would be required to rent one someplace.

But if you want to proceed, this is the only chart I found that actually included IANTD. They are pretty rare in the recreational space.

Agencies Equivalences, ISO standards, CMAS and the WRSTC – All Things Diving

allthingsdiving.com

 

[Marie13]

SSI’s Advanced is similar to the SDI Advanced I did. You do a certain number of specialties and if you have the minimum number of dives needed (25 for SDI), you get Advanced card.

SDI’s Advanced Adventure diver is similar to SSI Advanced Adventure - they’re sampler platters, both equivalent to PADI AOW. The four specialties program is NOT equivalent to PADI AOW, which is a sampler platter of five dives.

OP, so the SSI Advanced. Your PADI Nitrox class might count towards it.

 

[suricatasuricata]

Thanks for responding.

You'll probably get a bunch of responses to this, but in general, any of the "complete 5 specialty certs and we'll give you a super duper diver card (for a small processing fee)" type of certifications are generally not well regarded. If there are specific reasons to get specific certs, either building skills, gaining knowledge, or jumping through hoops so you can do stuff, that's all good. But to scrape together a bunch of mostly useless things in order to get another mostly useless glory card? Not worth the effort.

Your way of thinking aligns with mine, part of why I put off getting an AOW for a while. I know folks who get ten dives in and then get an AOW.

On the other hand, there are quite a few people who do conflate certs with learning/skills. I could be wrong, but I was told that this might be the case for a few live aboards -- If a cert is what makes them happy to let me dive, then I guess I have to play that game. But the tradeoff is that if I am going to put in several hundred dollars in the cert process, I'd like to squeeze out some learning out of it, which is what makes this a dilemma.

If it's important to you, then go for it! It's your time and money to do with as you please, but trying to stuff a bunch of courses that don't meet the requirements kinda defeats the purpose. Just send SSI $50 and think of your card as "in process"

Nitrox is almost a requirement these days, Deep can be beneficial and is a pre-requisite for some classes, drysuit is one that is good for skipping a bunch of pain leanring on your own, and as you say would be required to rent one someplace.

So I mostly dive Nitrox, I got my Nitrox card immediately after the OW. I must confess I don't think I learnt anything from the cert as much as reading up after it, and just picking up stuff since. I have a drysuit, and I have rented one in a couple of places with laxer regulations. While, I am pessimistic that a recreational place will teach me a lot in terms of learning, we live in cold water (7mm/semidry/drysuit) territory so I figure there will be some stuff to be learnt from them. Also, building up a relationship with your LDS is allegedly important .

But if you want to proceed, this is the only chart I found that actually included IANTD. They are pretty rare in the recreational space.

Agencies Equivalences, ISO standards, CMAS and the WRSTC – All Things Diving

allthingsdiving.com

Thank you for this link. I see that it covers the coarser grained speciality mappings. Not sure when they will post the stuff about specialized certification equivalencies.

I enjoyed my IANTD training, or more specifically, I think the shop that I did the training from pushed me very hard, made me feel like I was getting my money's worth in terms of becoming a better diver. The cert was just a cherry on top of the cake.
BUT, as someone who has no interest in becoming a cave diver, but does want to keep learning and growing and doing more challenging cool dives with critters, seems like the training bit is a bit of cobble it together from a bunch of disparate things.

 

[suricatasuricata]

SSI’s Advanced is similar to the SDI Advanced I did. You do a certain number of specialties and if you have the minimum number of dives needed (25 for SDI), you get Advanced card.

SDI’s Advanced Adventure diver is similar to SSI Advanced Adventure - they’re sampler platters, both equivalent to PADI AOW. The four specialties program is NOT equivalent to PADI AOW, which is a sampler platter of five dives.

OP, so the SSI Advanced. Your PADI Nitrox class might count towards it.

Sorry, I clearly used the wrong terminology here. I didn't realize that there were multiple certifications with similar names.

I think what My LDS was talking about was the SSI advanced . I thought at that time that it was equivalent to PADI's AOW but you are right in that PADI's AOW is more similar to SSI's Advanced Adventure diver.


Seems to me that assuming that other things being equal, the SSI Advanced (assuming one takes the right specialities) is better for learning than a PADI AOW or even the SSI Advanced Adventure Diver? At least from my POV, not sure why taking a smorgas board of a bunch of five dives would be considered to be valuable or open more doors in terms of diving?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

BUT, as someone who has no interest in becoming a cave diver, but does want to keep learning and growing and doing more challenging cool dives with critters, seems like the training bit is a bit of cobble it together from a bunch of disparate things.

Would you elaborate on that? The key to training is being strong in the fundamentals of diving skills: trim, different finning techniques, controlled descents/ascents (task loaded like gas sharing, DSMB deployment), situational awareness.

I personally haven't found much value in most con ed courses.

 

[suricatasuricata]

Would you elaborate on that? The key to training is being strong in the fundamentals of diving skills: trim, different finning techniques, controlled descents/ascents (task loaded like gas sharing, DSMB deployment), situational awareness.

I personally haven't found much value in most con ed courses.

This could be my (lack of) mentorship/experience talking. I first got interested in diving by finding out about it from a coworker who went deep into cave diving. I learnt about using Backplates/Wing configurations, a bit about DIR. I learnt a bit more about trim, finning techniques, situational awareness when I took the IANTD essentials course from a shop in Playa Del Carmen, where we didn't train in a Cenote, but everyone I met there who was doing very well (and the kind of person I'd want to look up to) was a Cave diver.

On the other hand, there seems to be a whole different group of people you meet in resorts and you encounter in LDS (at least in my experience). The configurations are mostly different. People use a whole different set of finning techniques. I visit Cozumel often and I see divers who have been diving for 20 years or so, and have the right certs (Divemaster etc) but who don't seem to have the right skills to treat the coral with respect. I greatly enjoy diving with critters, and in beautiful places, to me personally a Cave is not that.

Having said that, I work hard and want to even if I am doing recreational diving use efficient fin techniques, have situational awareness. As a concrete example, I am not very good at moving backwards with just my fins -- something I have seen both videos of cave divers, my coworker and the folks who taught me at IANTD do well. Seems a bit confusing to me how I'd learn those skills in a recreational setting when all the folks I see who have professional certs at recreational places flail with their hands, kicking up the sand when they try to move backwards. (As a point of note, I saw this specific thing happen with the dive masters at the place I went to in Cozumel).

Again, as I said at the start, this could all be me not having met the right group of divers who want to do recreational dives/teach in recreational spots but emphasize on the fundamentals.

 

[tursiops]

I am going to probably get some pushback for this, but....

I think the PADI Advanced Open Water, the SSI Advanced Adventurer, the SDI Advanced Adventure Diver, the NAUI Advanced Scuba Diver, the CMAS 2-star, etc, are ALL worth exploring for a new diver. They are all similar in that they are "tasters" for full specialties.....PADI requires 5 "adventure dives," i.e. the first dive of five different specialties; SSI and SDI are the same; CMAS only has a three-dive requirement but much more bookwork/theory. PADI and SDI both require Deep and Navigation adventure dives; SSI does not; CMAS requires both topics plus boat diving.

As "tasters," they allow you to find some subjects that really turn you on, that you want to get beter at, or know more about. That is good, is is not?

What the various "advanced" courses have in common is "advanced;" but NONE of them claim or intend to produce "advanced" divers, only to advance the student beyond the open-water stage. Many on SB either misunderstand this or misrepresent this. The concept is not difficult, but some seem unable to grasp it.

Some say they are waste of time; yes, if you dislike structured learning and would rather figure things out for yourself and are willing to make lots of mistakes and perhaps develop bad habits or miss important aspects of a subject, then with that attitude you are indeed wasting your time. Others like the courses, and appreciate the opportunity to get right to the point of a subject and not hope you found the right book to read or YouTube video to watch or mentor to follow. Sure, there are poor instructors; but self-teaching might also cause you to have a poor instructor. Just sayin'.

If you've had hundreds of logged dives and many years experience in many environments, it is possible that the subject matter in Deep, Navigation, PPB, S&R, and Night (to choose 5 as an example) is already something you have taken on board and are comfortable with. Or not; it is also quite possible that by learning these subject on your own you've missed some critical items, but how would you even know that?

It is popular on SB to denigrate any scuba course that is not about self-improvement of one's diving skills. Who can argue against "better divers?" But why does this justify making fun of a course that improves one's knowledge of the ocean? I'd like to think that all those super self-taught divers out there actually know at least a little something about the environment in which they are diving....

One other thing, while I'm ranting: if the path to diving excellence and ocean-knowledge is so readily available to anyone with a library or a YouTube link or a mentor, then why are there so many inept, clueless divers out there?

/rant

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Seems a bit confusing to me how I'd learn those skills in a recreational setting when all the folks I see who have professional certs at recreational places flail with their hands, kicking up the sand when they try to move backwards. (As a point of note, I saw this specific thing happen with the dive masters at the place I went to in Cozumel).

Again, as I said at the start, this could all be me not having met the right group of divers who want to do recreational dives/teach in recreational spots but emphasize on the fundamentals.

Ah, you have discovered early in your training how incredibly low the bar is for dive pros. It is really a joke, but not funny as sometimes people get killed due to instructor incompetence. The training you seek (quality training) is atypical in the industry. Most people want to tick off bucket list items, be guaranteed a certification card after flailing around like their instructor. They really don't learn much, but they feel good about themselves.

For those of us who care about having a high value to course cost ratio, you are the ideal customer. I have had students like you, but you are the minority.

My advice is to continue to take recreational courses with instructors with strong technical backgrounds. Ask them to see training videos of them. If what you see is what you want to be, then proceed. If not, keep looking.

And I hope one day to run into you under the surface.

 

[Marie13]

@suricatasuricata

Even if you don’t want to cave dive, taking a cavern or intro to cave course will have a very good impact on your diving.

Are you interested in eventually doing deeper ocean dives to see the critters aka going tech or do you want to stay within recreational limits?

TDI cavern can be done single tank with some tweaks to your gear (adding a long hose, for example). So if you’re not interested in doing tech at all, do Advanced, get some dives under your belt, and go do cavern.