Mandatory TDA membership

[orangelemon]

So you're not on Phuket anymore?

Agree with you, the bureaucracy can be awful, but I don't recognise the "you still end up paying the police" part of your statement.

Yes I left Phuket to come back to the UK to start my own company but am still in close touch with a few friends over there, I am personally aware of two of the biggest Dive Centres paying a monthly fee for the police to ensure they dont enforce the letter of the law.

When I was there the Dive Centre I was running was 'visited' a couple of times and I was 'encouraged' with the threats of a thai prison to pay a 'fee'. I got a few thai friends involved and thats when I found our about how widespread it is.

Was involved with the initial meetings about TDA and we joined up after all the bigger more established PADI DCs jumped on the bandwagon as it seemed they would be working in our best interest as at the time there was a lot of concern about the new regulations regarding paperwork requirements that turned out to be a pathetic and unworkable requirement.

Seems to me that the Thai authorities are corrupt and incompetent, in general terms, and instead of wanting to unite and promote the dive industry in Phuket and Thailand they want to extract as much money and control out of it as they can. I often thought when I was there that they dont realise what a great resource they have and that they see the foreign dive instructor as some sort of thief that much be inconvenienced as much as possible in the hope that they will leave the jobs to Thais. Shortsighted incompetence no better way to describe it.

I haven't had too much exposure to CMAS but even if CMAS was the best dive agency its fundamentally wrong to enforce membership.

 

[orangelemon]

Obviously you must have done this when you worked here but unlike your experiences we have never paid or had to pay a baht to the police.

Yes we did to this but it was the very last thing I wanted or could afford to do, actually that was the beginning of the end for my DC as I left and then it was sold as the margins were too tight even by having a lot of divers and students. Funny enough after our police visit we were told that another more established Dive Centre that had links with the police told them to visit us but thats another story.

As I mentioned previously, and partly as I travelled all over and worked for loads of companies, I personally know that at least 2 of the very biggest DCs in Phuket (from independent sources) that are encouraged to pay for the right to stay operating in Phuket

 

[stevenl]

I am personally aware of two of the biggest Dive Centres paying a monthly fee for the police to ensure they dont enforce the letter of the law.

Sure, I know that happens to, but that is not normal practice. That is wanting to disobey the law, and paying upfront for it.

I personally know that at least 2 of the very biggest DCs in Phuket (from independent sources) that are encouraged to pay for the right to stay operating in Phuket

That is something completely different than you wrote earlier, see the other quote in this post.

 

[orangelemon]

Sure, I know that happens to, but that is not normal practice. That is wanting to disobey the law, and paying upfront for it.

That is something completely different than you wrote earlier, see the other quote in this post.

right to operate and paying so they dont enforce the letter of the law are the same as every dive centre could be 'found out' to 'bending' the rules if you look hard enough

The distinction remains that instead of a warning and legal action and / or fine that would happen in a non-corrupt and developed nation IF there was a clear breach of the rules, that in Phuket it seems that an 'unofficial fine' / payment is the only way to survive. Due to the comments here I guess it doesnt happen to everyone.

I cant recommend Phuket enough for a dive career / dive holiday destination but always issue the same warnings as I believe its reasonably certain that if you are involved with the Dive Industry you will encounter red-tape and police enforced 'fines' if you play by the rules or not.

 

[stevenl]

I believe its reasonably certain that if you are involved with the Dive Industry you will encounter red-tape and police enforced 'fines' if you play by the rules or not.

Red tape, yes, police enforced fines: not in my experience.

in Phuket it seems that an 'unofficial fine' / payment is the only way to survive. Due to the comments here I guess it doesnt happen to everyone.

Maybe because some DC's play by the rules?

right to operate and paying so they dont enforce the letter of the law are the same as every dive centre could be 'found out' to 'bending' the rules if you look hard enough

See my previous answer. Some will bend the rules, others won't, so IMO there is a clear distinction between the two.

 

[smartecosse]

The TDA is trying to weed out the illegal working force in the Thai dive industry, which I think is a good thing.

Round about way of doing it.

For Phuket its simple.

1. Immigration officer at pier at 7.30 am with Police & big van
2. All customers board boats
3. All instructors according to manifests present WP
4. No WP - trip to jail, pay 100,000 baht, do not pass go - leave Thailand
5. Have WP - join boat and do a professional job (hopefully)

Most of the people working in the dive industry and others in Thailand illegally are the ones that complain loudest about the illegal immigrants in their own countries.

The whole TDA/CMAS scenario is a small minority out to line their own pockets at others expense. Pathetic really but unfortunately thats just the way of business in Asia.

 

[limbo]

That's really good how Phuket arranged for this, I can command this, but in many places there isn't one central pier where all boats leave from.

Other than that, the TDA should open it's door for all dive organisations, recreational or technical rather than forcing CMAS onto everybody.

TDA would profit and I don't think too many dc's will have a problem with joining TDA in such a set up. A win-win situation for all.

 

[katdiver]

It's not so easy. I suspect that the TDA needs a single agency such as the Thai branch of CMAS so that they can enforce their rules, or such rules as they see fit for the running of the Thai diving industry. A multi agency organisation will have a hard time to enforce flagrant abuse of standards as each case can and will be referred back to the international mother organisation for arbitration, eg, PADI can only expell a member, not the TDA.

 

[limbo]

So back to square one, a monopoly?

 

[stevenl]

I suspect that the TDA needs a single agency such as the Thai branch of CMAS so that they can enforce their rules, or such rules as they see fit for the running of the Thai diving industry.

That is because at the moment things are muxed up between CMAS and TDA.
If they were to stick to general rules for the Thai diving industry, like enforcing the posession of workpermits for instructors, be a liaison between DC's and governement(s), set rules for waste disposal for daytrip and liveaboard boats, make rules regarding moorings, etc.
The problem is the TDA wants to be the all arranging organisation. Even in countires like France, where CMAS is very big, and the Netherlands, where the NOB (part of CMAS) is functioning in a way the TDA would like to function, these organisations don't interfer with standards etc. That is up to the agencies.

But I think you state the main problem here:

such rules as they see fit for the running of the Thai diving industry

They want to run the Thai diving industry.