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Walter:
Sure there is.
It's the internet, afterall.
(even I got the "oxygen tank" reference!)
Proceed.
Man Dies After Dive on Spiegel Grove
- Thread starter showboat
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Sure there is.
It's the internet, afterall.
(even I got the "oxygen tank" reference!)
Proceed.
crpntr133
lost, even with a compass
Walter:
For once Walter and I agree on something.
Yes it was a poke at the news media that usually report that his "oxygen tank...."
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My condolences to the family of the deceased, and I hope that should they ever see this thread that they accept that we discuss accidents only so we may learn and benefit.
Anyone have any news on his medical possibilities...?
Anyone know the Operator? I know a few of them there, and I know this is very tough on them, too.
Anyone have any news on his medical possibilities...?
Anyone know the Operator? I know a few of them there, and I know this is very tough on them, too.
I would like to see some more info on this incident as I dove the Speigel Grove on Friday afternoon and two guys from Kansas City were on the boat. I don't remember their names, but neither looked to be 48. I also dove out of the Key Largo docks on Saturday morning and was around that area until about 4:00 or so, but didn't see anything unusual.
Either way - my condolences to his family and friends.
Either way - my condolences to his family and friends.
Per the Special Rules for this forum, the names of the divers involved in the incidents cited here have been removed.
Uncle Pug:
StSomewhere
Contributor
This brings up two topics for thought, one of which I will actually provide a possible solution (not just point out the problem)
1. An age old question is whether someone with the risk for a heart attack should dive. I'd imagine the majority of divers might say no way. However, what is the difference between (A) having a heart attack under water and drowning or simply dieing from the heart attack and (B) driving on a road, having a heart attack and veering into the path of an oncoming car or 18 wheeler and dieing (besides the variation in applied pain - slow vs. fast and possible decapitation or being crushed vs. drowning)?
At the end of the day, death is death regardless of whether you die while driving or diving. However on a dive, there are people around who are more readily able to help than in a car accident. On a dive boat, the operator can equip the boat with a mask for CPR to avoid bio-hazard contact. In a crash, how many passers-by carry latex gloves or the jaws of life to assist in a bloody car crash that is riddled with bio-hazard?
I guess the license plate holders that say, "I'd rather be diving" is the answer some may respond with?
2. The news article about the boat crew not assistig (or not being able to assist) the diver at the surface at the "wrong" mooring ball really makes the dive op look extremely bad and uncaring. I stress this is one possible impression. Did one of the crew attempt to throw a lifeline to the diver? I would have to admit that this is extremely challenging given the overall length of the grove. Could one of the crew members jumped in with a line and swam to the diver against or with any current? What was the current like at the surface? Was it 1 knot, 2 knots, or over 3 knots? Which direction was the current if, any. If the current was toward the boat from the mooring ball, the diver could have drifted towards the boat. If the current was away from the boat, then a crew member could have made it in the water to the diver with little effort. The challenge would be if the current ran perpendicular to the alignment of the boat and the diver. I would imagine a 1 knot current might be doable, 2 knots would be very slow going, if not impossible, and 3 knots would be "not a chance". This is the problem. The dive op now may have a negative impression, regardless of the sea conditions.
The solution that is needed has to reduce the risk of a diver being delayed help, without risk to a would-be rescuer/dive-op crew member and without putting a dive-op and crew member/would-be resuer in the line of fire for scrutiny. One potential solution to reduce this risk is a minor addition to a dive-ops procedures for mooring up to a ball. Simply attaching a messenger / guide line to one mooring ball (or more mooring balls if more than two at the site) and then mooring to the second or final ball might reduce this risk. This would allow an injured/or in-trouble diver to pull his way to the boat or to allow a crew member to pull his way to the diver holding onto any ball.
I realize that the sea conditions around wrecks in the keys sometimes pose problems to finding and mooring to one ball, let alone two or more. But this is just one potential solution that can help without having to pull the boat off of its mooring before other divers are safely back on board.
1. An age old question is whether someone with the risk for a heart attack should dive. I'd imagine the majority of divers might say no way. However, what is the difference between (A) having a heart attack under water and drowning or simply dieing from the heart attack and (B) driving on a road, having a heart attack and veering into the path of an oncoming car or 18 wheeler and dieing (besides the variation in applied pain - slow vs. fast and possible decapitation or being crushed vs. drowning)?
At the end of the day, death is death regardless of whether you die while driving or diving. However on a dive, there are people around who are more readily able to help than in a car accident. On a dive boat, the operator can equip the boat with a mask for CPR to avoid bio-hazard contact. In a crash, how many passers-by carry latex gloves or the jaws of life to assist in a bloody car crash that is riddled with bio-hazard?
I guess the license plate holders that say, "I'd rather be diving" is the answer some may respond with?
2. The news article about the boat crew not assistig (or not being able to assist) the diver at the surface at the "wrong" mooring ball really makes the dive op look extremely bad and uncaring. I stress this is one possible impression. Did one of the crew attempt to throw a lifeline to the diver? I would have to admit that this is extremely challenging given the overall length of the grove. Could one of the crew members jumped in with a line and swam to the diver against or with any current? What was the current like at the surface? Was it 1 knot, 2 knots, or over 3 knots? Which direction was the current if, any. If the current was toward the boat from the mooring ball, the diver could have drifted towards the boat. If the current was away from the boat, then a crew member could have made it in the water to the diver with little effort. The challenge would be if the current ran perpendicular to the alignment of the boat and the diver. I would imagine a 1 knot current might be doable, 2 knots would be very slow going, if not impossible, and 3 knots would be "not a chance". This is the problem. The dive op now may have a negative impression, regardless of the sea conditions.
The solution that is needed has to reduce the risk of a diver being delayed help, without risk to a would-be rescuer/dive-op crew member and without putting a dive-op and crew member/would-be resuer in the line of fire for scrutiny. One potential solution to reduce this risk is a minor addition to a dive-ops procedures for mooring up to a ball. Simply attaching a messenger / guide line to one mooring ball (or more mooring balls if more than two at the site) and then mooring to the second or final ball might reduce this risk. This would allow an injured/or in-trouble diver to pull his way to the boat or to allow a crew member to pull his way to the diver holding onto any ball.
I realize that the sea conditions around wrecks in the keys sometimes pose problems to finding and mooring to one ball, let alone two or more. But this is just one potential solution that can help without having to pull the boat off of its mooring before other divers are safely back on board.
ok, not to be direspectful.
I only want to make SCUBABOARD staff people's lives easier...so don't ban me for the following text...not just yet.
What value is gained in the effort made to remove this one person's name, when his/her name appears in almost every newspaper (public information) article?...especially since <name of scubaboard veteran removed> has posted the link to two of the newspapers bearing the name of the victim?:S
ok...please don't hurt me <name of Scubaboard staff member removed> for this observation I've made.:$
I only want to make SCUBABOARD staff people's lives easier...so don't ban me for the following text...not just yet.
What value is gained in the effort made to remove this one person's name, when his/her name appears in almost every newspaper (public information) article?...especially since <name of scubaboard veteran removed>
has posted the link to two of the newspapers bearing the name of the victim?:Sok...please don't hurt me <name of Scubaboard staff member removed> for this observation I've made.:$
StSomewhere
Contributor
AXL72:What value is gained in the effort made to remove this one person's name, when his/her name appears in almost every newspaper (public information) article?...especially since <name of scubaboard veteran removed>
Well I'm not sure if I should've done that or not. :blush: In my defense, I'm just up the road a few hours from KCMO, and know a few divers from there though as it turns out I know no anyone who knew the victim.
From the Special rules - Please Read for this forum:
So the mod was following the rules, but some of the rest of us weren't. HTH
John
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