Making The Scuba Industry Better

[Thalassamania]

Nope, not in the least, but then I've only taught in a shop as a rare favor to a friend, and even then I've gotten badly screwed. I was no a rec instructor who jumped to science, I started doing diving science when I was 14 and later on got a rec instructor credential from Lee Somers as a convenience.

 

[k ellis]

I see your point, but the problem from the shop point of view is that they usually see instruction as a loss leader to get you to purchase equipment. I know the shop owners in both shops where I live believe that they lose money on instruction alone.

Many do see it as a loss leader. The problem is there is one instructor here who teaches scuba with all books and confined and open water that teaches for $189.00. Now while I dont myself see this as a place I would want to get certified he is still in business to this day. He does do some sales here and there but more then anything he relies on classes and rentals to make it.

Cost of living plays huge roles in what it cost but my question is simple. If a guy in Oklahoma of all places can make it on 189.00 per student then why is it so many other LDS are struggling with full classes in places like Florida at over $500.00 per student.

Its kind of like living at home. When your bills start piling up on you then you dont get on the internet and cry a river that you cant afford all the luxieries you have but instead look at what you dont need and how to cut back on the things you do need. Some times this works and sadly some times people end up still loosing their homes or cars but its a fact of life.

Now as my disclaimer not all instructors are guilty of this one thing I hate to see is instructors crying that business is bad for them when they just try the mill approach. Go out run through and just bare minimum then get out and go home. If alot of instructors would put more into their classes and treat them like its a wager earner and not an inconvenience then more people would possibly refer them and be willing to spend more for those instructors.

Dive shops may see instruction and air fills as a monetary loss alone but the reality is gear sales at well over 100 percent is quickly becoming even larger loss providers since people are more willing to save hundreds and even thousands over an extended period of time. If they dont adapt and become more creative then no matter how much they complain and whine how the internet is killing them the ultimate outcome will be out of business

 

[wtcreaux]

Maybe I misunderstood the OP's point. I thought it was to do away with the 2 separate days for check-off dives. I would agree with this.

Full Disclosure - I am NOT a dive instructor. However, I do teach a number of task-oriented programs. I rarely have a problem with a student failing to achieve a check-off. Reason?? They're not cleared to perform the check-off until they feel comfortable with the skill.

If I applied my same procedures to dive instruction (bear with me for a moment), the student wouldn't even go through check-off until they felt comfortable with the skill required. By the time this happens, it might only take a day, as it is merely a formality.

I do understand the decreased business this can bring but the quality of the instruction and the results of the student is worth it, IMHO. And yes, I work with students beyond the minimal requirements because of safety (teach firearms). Every class I have taught has ALWAYS gone over on range time. When (if) a student asks, I tell them it is a safety issue, and I don't budge on safety.

The students know this upfront so no surprises. (I ain't getting rich at it but the students have always thanked me later for taking the extra time to ready them)

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't think air fills are a loss I think they just don't make any money to speak of doing them. Some shops may consider it a loss if it doesn't meet a certain profit margin.
A lot of people get air cards and the store gets a boost all at once in the beginning, but then as the customer comes in the shop has to honor the card and do fills with nothing going into the cash register. It makes them feel like they did it for free even though they already got paid.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have taken positive steps to do my part to change what I can in scuba. I've developed some alternative dive gear and also mentored new divers to help further their skills.Dive shops don't sell the product I make and they don't teach the way I dive, but there are people who want to use what I make and are intrigued by the way I dive so I show them how I dive and let them use the product I make.The first step is to admit there is a problem and then identify it. I think that's pretty much all this discussion is about.If you see it as annoying then don't read it. :mooner:

I am sorry you misunderstood me. Once again my poor communication skills have come back to bite me.

I was not accusing you of anything. I was agreeing with you and adding further thought.

 

[boulderjohn]

I find it impossible to believe a fill runs the shop $7 cost. I also don't know how instruction is a loss leader at $500 per student, or around $250 to do only classroom. They generally sell most new divers some gear, likely $250 minimum. A1 seems to be doing well and I know instruction over there is not losing $$$. They used to average 1000 students a year about a decade ago. It would be interesting to know what they are doing now.

Denver is a good market and Denver supports around 10 dive shops. Not that times are that good.

A Denver shop went out of business this summer. A nearby Colorado Springs shop went under about a month ago.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

We just had a new shop open. It has actually been around a long time but changed ownership recently after being more or less closed this year. It has been taken over by an independent instructor who is welcoming other independents to teach with (NOT FOR) him. We bring in our own students, use the shops tanks and gear, recommend our students to him for equipment. I am an equipment dealer myself but 95% of my business is on line. He has offered me space to display some of my stuff for a percentage in exchange for considerations with pool use, air fills, etc. He is also going to have some of my brand of regs in rental . We are also the only shop in the tri-state area (PA,Ohio, WVa) that has an ON SITE HEATED POOL STEPS FROM THE SHOP. No show up for pool and have to drive somewhere else. We also have a 60 ft deep lake 5 minutes from the shop that only this shop has access to.


This is what needs to happen. Shops need to cooperate with independents and make use of them rather than look at them as competition. I get students from all over the east coast for advanced training. They often do not want to travel with tanks and weights. I have some tanks for some classes and offer them for rental but it's nice now having a place to get them from if I need more. These are rentals he would otherwise never see.

Many shops don't see that. They think that every student needs to come thru them or will come through them. The guy who came to me for a refresher from Viginia would never have rented the tank or bought the accessories he did if I had not brought him in. The students who came 2 hours each way twice a week for OW classes would never have walked into that shop or spent the thousands that they did if I had not met them at a regional show, that I am the only one from my area who attends. What will change it and make the industy better is not shortening training days, reducing skills taught in classes, or focusing on keeping the dive center open as it tries to currently do and is failing miserably at.

What will make the industry better is focusing on producing more skilled, better prepared divers that KEEP DIVING LOCALLY! They will keep the shops open. They will keep the manufacturers in business. The once a year vacation diver is why OW training is often a loss leader. They do little for the dive equipment or dive shop segments of the industry. My instructor trained me to love local diving. That's why in the first 6 months after being certed I had BC, regs, tanks, drysuit, etc. Local divers do this. Vacation divers buy mask, fins, snorkel, and maybe a suit most times. No one can stay open on that.

If there is water that is accessible there is local diving. Train your divers to dive it and appreciate it. If you only train to send them somewhere else then you should fail and have no one else to blame but yourself. Cooperate with independents and let them issue their own certs. They do not have to go through the shop. Support local diving activities and events even if they are not right down the street. The show I attend every year is 150 miles away but worth it for me to get a booth, supply prizes, and do a presentation or two for. I have gotten gear sales and students from it.

 

[bletso]

I see your point, but the problem from the shop point of view is that they usually see instruction as a loss leader to get you to purchase equipment. I know the shop owners in both shops where I live believe that they lose money on instruction alone.

IMO, that has been a problem for at least 20 years The LDS never charged enough for education. They tried to make it up by charging 79.95 for mask they paid 15.00 for, etc. I thought it was always upside down. I still run into shops with a 99.00 class special though rarer these days. They still are way below what they should be.

Technical training on the other hand is generally priced better though you will see the occasional low baller there.

Dale

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

IMO, that has been a problem for at least 20 years The LDS never charged enough for education. They tried to make it up by charging 79.95 for mask they paid 15.00 for, etc. I thought it was always upside down. I still run into shops with a 99.00 class special though rarer these days. They still are way below what they should be.

Yanno it's upside down when you meet someone who paid more for a fancy dry snorkel than they did for the class they bought it for ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mdb]

I do not think you can sign up for a class to learn how to fly an airplane for $99.00.

In 1971 I signed up for my first SCUBA class. 40+ hours of classroom and pool and 5 ocean dives.

I paid $100.00+ for that course; plus books and basic equipment. According to the inflation calculator that is $532.25.

The Inflation Calculator