Making The Scuba Industry Better

[Akimbo]

… First, many seem to think I indicate taking something away from training by going from 2 days to 1. I did not say that. The same number of dives and all the same skills are required…

What is taken away is time for students to reflect on their experiences. That allows them to develop questions (for you and other students), review things that they can now relate to, and to integrate with the academic aspects. Telling people about buoyancy and experiencing it are two different things that must meld into one in their minds. It also gives people time to consider and correct some of the small and annoying things about their equipment that distracts them. It is a long list. IMHO, a week in between check out dives is far better than the next day. That time was extremely valuable to me.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Like Bob, when I wrote the SEI AOW course I offer it was all centered around those skills that a diver would need to have under our local (read northeast fresh and saltwater) conditions to safely dive without an instructor or DM. Bag Shoots, stage/pony bottle use, advanced propulsion skills, underwater nav skills, and way above average (since average now is pretty crappy) buddy skills. I also include those rescue skills that might be needed under these conditions on top of the OW skills. Some of the skills are repeats of what we offer in OW as a matter of course because I get students that have never done an unconscious diver from depth, a panicked diver at the surface, and a rescue tow while stripping gear. Giving someone an advanced card or OW one without giving them rescue skills is stupid.

Some say that it's too much to put rescue skills in OW and even AOW. That they should learn this in the rescue class. I have found that if you give them a sample of rescue skills before, they are likely to want to take the rescue class. They will want to learn more. IMO a good rescue class is not as much about how to pull someone from the water but, taken from our DRAM course, how to avoid the need to do that in the first place. I spend a great deal of time in all classes talking about situational awareness and identifying and breaking the panic cycle. The rescue class takes this to the next level and focuses on individuals seeing the problems before they happen and heading them off. They already know how to take care of something when it happens.

If you want to make training better focus on using rescue in the OW and AOW classes as a reinforcement of the buddy system. Tow properly trained divers are not as likley to have a problem. What is a more likely scenario is they, as a buddy team, come across someone who is from one of these one weekend certs panicking, not being able to get positive, maybe running out of air, and at worst -on the bottom with the reg out of their mouth and unresponsive. What do they do? Try to find a rescue diver to help the person who is drowning? No, they take what I have taught them in the OW class and AOW class and help the poor sot.

Shortening classes and breaking things down into little parts of the whole puzzle may have some benefit for some people. But I personally have not seen it do more than perpetuate the cycle of people getting certed, do a couple dives, and then never come back. Comprehensive training may take a bit longer but it builds more confidence and interest. Not pushing people to get cert after cert right after OW works wonders also. I don't students to take any classes back to back with OW. They need to get at least ten dives in before the next class. And during those ten dives they often find that now they want to buy gear and they have an idea that they came up with on their own as to what that gear should be. I don't push any one configuration. They get to try a few and I will work with them on their independent dives to try more by renting. Then let them decide what's best for them. Not what's best for me or the shop.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I agree... there are many shops and Instructors out there offering "1 day" courses. This is insane.

I wish you had quoted the post you are typing to here. Are there any links to these 'many shops and Instructors out there offering "1 day" courses'?

I must be defining "courses" differently than you and the other you agree with; for me a "course" results in a certification. I know of one dive shop whose web pages outline the possibility of OW certification in 2 days. I'd be interested in any links to any advertised 1-day or 2-day certifications.

 

[offthewall1]

I wish you had quoted the post you are typing to here. Are there any links to these 'many shops and Instructors out there offering "1 day" courses'?

I must be defining "courses" differently than you and the other you agree with; for me a "course" results in a certification. I know of one dive shop whose web pages outline the possibility of OW certification in 2 days. I'd be interested in any links to any advertised 1-day or 2-day certifications.

It is possible we're defining "courses" differently. I break getting "certified" into three distinct parts. There are two parts to a course... Academic Training (book or online) and Skills Training (completed in a pool or confined water.) To me the 3rd and final part of certification is "checkout."

I break it down like this because more and more people are choosing to do their checkouts seperate from their "courses." We can debate whether this is good or bad all day... but to me, checkouts are no longer part of the scuba course. Here is why... the referral system now in use by PADI and the Universal Referral system used by several other agencies - seperates "training" from "certification."

It has really always been this way - but never thought of in these terms. The premise being you are suppose to "learn" to dive in the classroom and in your pool/confined water training. At the end of the last pool/academic session, you are supposed to be done training. Of course we all know that you never stop learning - that's not what I mean. What I mean is that "checkout" dives by definition have always been an exercise for you to demonstrate your skills one last time before receiving your certification card. This is very much the same as taking your drivers license exam. You get on the course with an Instructor in the car and you either pass or fail. Learning ended. The examiner is not there to teach you anymore... they are there to ensure you'll be a safe driver. Scuba is designed the same way. A good Instructor will pass or fail students at checkout. The learning for all intents and purposes should have been done in the classroom and at the pool.

The referral system has now illuminated this difference more than ever before. Most local instructors and dive shops have systems in place to assist students through to certification. If a student fails miserably at checkouts - most shops will continue working with them - some for a fee - some will do it for free. Regardless whether the additional help is paid or not, most students who want to succeed in scuba will get as many opportunties as it takes. Again, this is similar to a drivers license - although in many states there is a waiting period before you may retake the exam.

There are many places offering 1 day training. Many more offering two day training. In most cases this does not include the "checkout" dives... although I have heard of some unscrupulous individuals and shops that do. So to answer your question - I think most of these 1 and 2 day courses are just that. The student takes the book home, reads the chapters and meets at an LDS from 9am - 1pm for classroom... then heads to the pool from 2pm - 6pm... and wallah... their training is done. In some, they spend the first day in the classroom all day and the second day in the pool all day... and wallah... they're done. Courses do not include "checkout" dives.

The way many places now do it... you pay for the course and then have the option to pay more for local checkout dives... or, receive a referral letter and complete your checkouts wherever you want at a price negotiated with the checkout Instructor.

I am undecided as to whether I agree with this program or not... but we're there now and I don't see us going back. Hopefully I've cleared up your question...

 

[wtcreaux]

It is possible we're defining "courses" differently. I break getting "certified" into three distinct parts. There are two parts to a course... Academic Training (book or online) and Skills Training (completed in a pool or confined water.) To me the 3rd and final part of certification is "checkout."

I break it down like this because more and more people are choosing to do their checkouts seperate from their "courses." We can debate whether this is good or bad all day... but to me, checkouts are no longer part of the scuba course. Here is why... the referral system now in use by PADI and the Universal Referral system used by several other agencies - seperates "training" from "certification." (emphasis mine)

It has really always been this way - but never thought of in these terms. The premise being you are suppose to "learn" to dive in the classroom and in your pool/confined water training. At the end of the last pool/academic session, you are supposed to be done training. Of course we all know that you never stop learning - that's not what I mean. What I mean is that "checkout" dives by definition have always been an exercise for you to demonstrate your skills one last time before receiving your certification card. This is very much the same as taking your drivers license exam. You get on the course with an Instructor in the car and you either pass or fail. Learning ended. The examiner is not there to teach you anymore... they are there to ensure you'll be a safe driver. Scuba is designed the same way. A good Instructor will pass or fail students at checkout. The learning for all intents and purposes should have been done in the classroom and at the pool.
.

Which is why I think the checkout dives could be done in 1 day..........the student is no longer in the "learning mode" but in the "test mode"

 

[*dave*]

While I don't believe one day checkouts would be beneficial or even possible in my case, I don't see how altering its duration would "improve the industry". How would that work, again?

I'm convinced the answer has to do with intent. When instructors become truly professional and shops focus on the needs of the divers instead of sucking every dime possible from them and agencies develop some means of quality control, I believe we'll be moving in the right direction.

The problem in the sport for the lds is retention and customer loyalty. Given the current lack of value I've seen and read of here, most shops and instructors deserve neither. If the industry truly focused on what's best for the diver, I'm confident our divers would take care of us. I've been steering the shop I'm affiliated with in that direction for the last year and the results have been encouraging. Gross sales are up 65% over the previous year and the place is starting to feel like a "Diver's Shop" that I remember from the 70's. I'll talk LP or any alternate source and provide potential alternatives without acting like the guy is pissing on my leg. I also explain the benefits of supporting the shop with their dollars. I usually make the sale, but not always. Regardless of where the purchase is made I can usually be counted on to wrap it up with "let's get that **** wet! How about Friday?"

The surface dwellers don't typically know what type of diver they will become or there are even different types of diving. I believe it's critical for a diver to own their own gear if they want to get the most from this sport, but selling them before we have a clue of their needs is looking for the quick buck and in the end.... Well, just look where we are.

I believe the intent of standards is solid, but execution and oversight is lacking I've seen a BOW diver signed off to AOWI inside of five months as one example. That should not be possible and the agencies could eliminate that if they had divers best interests in mind.

Focus on helping the diver and the industry WILL improve.

It is possible we're defining "courses" differently. I break getting "certified" into three distinct parts. There are two parts to a course... Academic Training (book or online) and Skills Training (completed in a pool or confined water.) To me the 3rd and final part of certification is "checkout."

I break it down like this because more and more people are choosing to do their checkouts seperate from their "courses." We can debate whether this is good or bad all day... but to me, checkouts are no longer part of the scuba course. Here is why... the referral system now in use by PADI and the Universal Referral system used by several other agencies - seperates "training" from "certification."

It has really always been this way - but never thought of in these terms. The premise being you are suppose to "learn" to dive in the classroom and in your pool/confined water training. At the end of the last pool/academic session, you are supposed to be done training. Of course we all know that you never stop learning - that's not what I mean. What I mean is that "checkout" dives by definition have always been an exercise for you to demonstrate your skills one last time before receiving your certification card. This is very much the same as taking your drivers license exam. You get on the course with an Instructor in the car and you either pass or fail. Learning ended. The examiner is not there to teach you anymore... they are there to ensure you'll be a safe driver. Scuba is designed the same way. A good Instructor will pass or fail students at checkout. The learning for all intents and purposes should have been done in the classroom and at the pool.

The referral system has now illuminated this difference more than ever before. Most local instructors and dive shops have systems in place to assist students through to certification. If a student fails miserably at checkouts - most shops will continue working with them - some for a fee - some will do it for free. Regardless whether the additional help is paid or not, most students who want to succeed in scuba will get as many opportunties as it takes. Again, this is similar to a drivers license - although in many states there is a waiting period before you may retake the exam.

There are many places offering 1 day training. Many more offering two day training. In most cases this does not include the "checkout" dives... although I have heard of some unscrupulous individuals and shops that do. So to answer your question - I think most of these 1 and 2 day courses are just that. The student takes the book home, reads the chapters and meets at an LDS from 9am - 1pm for classroom... then heads to the pool from 2pm - 6pm... and wallah... their training is done. In some, they spend the first day in the classroom all day and the second day in the pool all day... and wallah... they're done. Courses do not include "checkout" dives.

The way many places now do it... you pay for the course and then have the option to pay more for local checkout dives... or, receive a referral letter and complete your checkouts wherever you want at a price negotiated with the checkout Instructor.

I am undecided as to whether I agree with this program or not... but we're there now and I don't see us going back. Hopefully I've cleared up your question...

 

[endurodog]

While I don't believe one day checkouts would be beneficial or even possible in my case, I don't see how altering its duration would "improve the industry". How would that work, again?
.

I think I understand the OP's intent so I will answer. By shortening the checkouts to one day would that lure more people into the sport? Having people only burn one day would save on their time, money for food and lodging where ever they travel. Allow them more diving if the cert is just part of their vacation. If the spouse they travel with say you can have one day and the rest of the vacation is mine. Ect ect. I'm sure there are as many more reasons I can't think of.

The negatives have to do with stress loading on the students caused by a shorter SI between dives (not having overnight to think about it).

The one new diver I have brought this up to said she wished her OW was one day so that she could have gotten on to diving the rest of her vacation. She didn't think there would be any problem with having a shorter SI, hours instead of over night. FWIW.

 

[*dave*]

Well, there's a helluva lot more divers now than any other time so things must be getting better already. If we put certs in every box of Cracker Jacks, we have a lot more divers, but I just don't believe the number of new divers is a sign of industry health

 

[Thalassamania]

Neither does the ocean environment.

 

[endurodog]

Well, there's a helluva lot more divers now than any other time so things must be getting better already. If we put certs in every box of Cracker Jacks, we have a lot more divers, but I just don't believe the number of new divers is a sign of industry health

I'm not sure of the equation of figuring out industry health. As in any field number of people involved has a strong bearing on the health of that field. No doubt there are other factors involved too, some more important and some less important. Again the OP asked to look at one small sliver of training (just the timing of it is all) and how that may effect the industry, but there are so many strong opinions about training sucking that has been hard to have a logical discussion on the issue raised by the OP. Some have brought up some very good points about the learning curve, down time playing an important role in learning, enviromental issues like cold water training ,ect. No one is saying give out certs easier but several on here have liked to push that argument for reasons of their own.