Lost diver in Puget Sound
- Thread starter Rishidian
- Start date
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It is very tragic and sad that such a young and heroic man has died partaking in the sport we all love and live for. My best wishes and heart felt sorrow goes out to the family and friends of Chad.
When will a recovery effort be launched? It seems given proper weather and water conditions this should be done as soon as possible. I hope Chad is found and that it will help his family to cope and find closure.
Any loss of a loved one is always hard for everyone involved regardless of the circumstances. It is especially hard when we loose them so young. Again I want to give my best wishes to Chad's family and friends.
As divers we are ultimately responsible for our actions and the decisions we make are our own. Chad made a decision that cost him the ultimate price. Even a hero of Chads caliber can make a bad decision. It would be naive to believe that any divemaster in training did not know the ramifications of this dive plan. Indeed Chad and the others did know the inherent risks that they were about to embark upon.
This does not take away from the heroic act that Chad performed to aid his fellow diver. Chad should be given that award for is heroism. He unselfishly gave his life to save another and again Chad knew the added risks he was taking by going back down to help the distressed diver. This act makes him a hero in my mind. Even after he knew he was probably already in trouble he found the courage to rescue someone in need. That is truly the stuff that heroes are made of.
[FONT="]Remember. Anyone can call any dive, at any time, for any reason. No questions asked. This is a basic rule that every diver knows and should always keep in the forefront of his mind when planning any dive. I feel sure that had Chad survived this encounter he would want us all to remember this simple rule. [/FONT]
When will a recovery effort be launched? It seems given proper weather and water conditions this should be done as soon as possible. I hope Chad is found and that it will help his family to cope and find closure.
Any loss of a loved one is always hard for everyone involved regardless of the circumstances. It is especially hard when we loose them so young. Again I want to give my best wishes to Chad's family and friends.
As divers we are ultimately responsible for our actions and the decisions we make are our own. Chad made a decision that cost him the ultimate price. Even a hero of Chads caliber can make a bad decision. It would be naive to believe that any divemaster in training did not know the ramifications of this dive plan. Indeed Chad and the others did know the inherent risks that they were about to embark upon.
This does not take away from the heroic act that Chad performed to aid his fellow diver. Chad should be given that award for is heroism. He unselfishly gave his life to save another and again Chad knew the added risks he was taking by going back down to help the distressed diver. This act makes him a hero in my mind. Even after he knew he was probably already in trouble he found the courage to rescue someone in need. That is truly the stuff that heroes are made of.
[FONT="]Remember. Anyone can call any dive, at any time, for any reason. No questions asked. This is a basic rule that every diver knows and should always keep in the forefront of his mind when planning any dive. I feel sure that had Chad survived this encounter he would want us all to remember this simple rule. [/FONT]
Thumper517
Registered
My instructor gave us all a little talk in open water class about diving fatalities and the mindset that leads them. He informed me and the others in my class that the most diving fatalities that you will hear about are divers pushing the envelope for the thrill of it, or from diving alone.
He told us about two of divers that were doing a bounce dive on a wall to set a personal record. If I recall correctly, the plan was to do a fast decent to some deep depth and then stop and ascend. Of course stopping was not as easy as they thought it would be. One diver made it to the wall and used his hands and feet against it to finally stop himself. The other did not.
He told us about two of divers that were doing a bounce dive on a wall to set a personal record. If I recall correctly, the plan was to do a fast decent to some deep depth and then stop and ascend. Of course stopping was not as easy as they thought it would be. One diver made it to the wall and used his hands and feet against it to finally stop himself. The other did not.
- Messages
- 98,262
- Reaction score
- 99,985
- Location
- On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
And it's reasonable to assume that those stories made an impression on you.Thumper517:
The instructor involved in this incident regaled his students with stories of people doing 200-foot bounce dives too ... but with a decidedly different slant. It is reasonable to assume that those stories made an impression on his students as well ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I too have read this whole thread and have followed it. Some key info is that this was a class. If this is true then they had no business being below 130. If they were there by mistake then the instructor should have been there trying to fix the situation. Meaning get them back within limits. A couple pages back, this did not seem to be the case, when someone asked, where the instructor was. If both of these are true then I feel the instructor should be held liable unless he has a very good reason, like he was saving someone else.
If this was not a class, he should still be expelled from his agency for planning and encouraging this dive, however, I find it very disturbing, and precedent setting, that an instructor would be held criminally liable outside of class.
If this was not a class, he should still be expelled from his agency for planning and encouraging this dive, however, I find it very disturbing, and precedent setting, that an instructor would be held criminally liable outside of class.
- Messages
- 98,262
- Reaction score
- 99,985
- Location
- On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
This was an AOW night dive. According to one of the participants, they were not told until they arrived at the site that the planned depth was 200 feet. When one of the new divers objected, the instructor assured them that it would be alright. As it turned out, that diver and his dive buddy bailed on the dive at 55 feet, due to current and poor vis conditions. The other four continued to the bottom ... the depth on one diver's computer registered 211 feet.partridge:
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
lamont
Contributor
partridge:
I really don't find this disturbing. If a student on an OW class were to panic and shoot to the surface and embolize and die, but the instructor met all the organizational standards and they were still held criminally liable I would find it disturbing and precedent setting. The civil lawsuit awhile back against the buddy of a diver who died on an OW dive was much more disturbing. This dive was so far outside of anything that any diver or instructor should be engaged in that I simply don't see any substantial risk of a bad precedent. The precedent it sets is for instructors to not flagrantly violate standards and take other divers on 200 foot bounce dives with single tanks without anyone involved having technical training, technical equipment or appropriate gases for the depth. I'm very okay with that precedent.
I agree the lawsuit awhile back was bad. My line of thought on this one is that if the instructor is liable on this while not in class, then it implies a duty of care outside the class setting. Now where do you draw the line? What about a difficult dive? A strong current? An offshore reef? This is getting off topic because Grateful has already assured us it was a class.
Thats one good thing about the Philipppines, we are not a sue-happy country. Then when I think about it, that is also one bad thing about the Philippines.
Thats one good thing about the Philipppines, we are not a sue-happy country. Then when I think about it, that is also one bad thing about the Philippines.
lamont
Contributor
partridge:
Okay, I parsed the previous post more like "held criminally liable outside of this class" which confused me. Holding instructors liable outside of a class setting on any dive they may be on is something that I'm not terribly comfortable with either -- but it is a reality and divers that aren't willing to deal with the liability really shouldn't become DMs or instructors...
I'm no expert here, but it is my understanding that instructor insurance is only good to cover liability if the instructor is teaching within standards. That being said, the lost diver wasn't his student so the family will have to go to civil court to get this guy.
The next issue is about the law in washington. In my state a caregiver, or anyone responsible for safety or welfare of an individual, has a greater liability to ensure the safety of their charge. This is the reason for the good samaritan laws, to keep caregivers who happen upon an incident from being sued under the same law.
It seems to me the instructor would have a greater exposure to being charged than a buddy or other non-professional. He had an obligation to the students to ensure they were diving within the scope of their training. The accident occured and was possibly worsened because Chad was (heroically) compelled to assist the diver in trouble. The diver was in trouble because he was instructed to dive beyond his training. The instructor carries the burden as the primary source of incompetence.
Like I said before, I'm no expert, but this looks pretty cut and dried to me.
The family member who is researching the case would be well advised to hire someone without ties to the family to gather evidence in the case, the credibility of the evidence would be brought into question in the civil case.
I hope the family finds closure and sees justice.
The next issue is about the law in washington. In my state a caregiver, or anyone responsible for safety or welfare of an individual, has a greater liability to ensure the safety of their charge. This is the reason for the good samaritan laws, to keep caregivers who happen upon an incident from being sued under the same law.
It seems to me the instructor would have a greater exposure to being charged than a buddy or other non-professional. He had an obligation to the students to ensure they were diving within the scope of their training. The accident occured and was possibly worsened because Chad was (heroically) compelled to assist the diver in trouble. The diver was in trouble because he was instructed to dive beyond his training. The instructor carries the burden as the primary source of incompetence.
Like I said before, I'm no expert, but this looks pretty cut and dried to me.
The family member who is researching the case would be well advised to hire someone without ties to the family to gather evidence in the case, the credibility of the evidence would be brought into question in the civil case.
I hope the family finds closure and sees justice.
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