Lost diver in Puget Sound

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

Post 88 by anikin After reading this whole thread, ive realized one thing. None of you have any confirmed information beyond the fact that a few people went diving possibly including a Divemaster and an Instructor,

REALLY??? Anikin you are kidding right???Like I said in the thread you so carefully read, I personally called NAUI and asked if this guy was an instructor—you can too at 800-553-6284. I also personally asked if he had been suspended and was told yes.

anikin again:
and something happend underwater and one of the divers never returned. Yep, glad you didn’t miss the part about Chad being dead. WHAT EVER HAPPENED CANNOT BE DETERMINED EXCEPT FROM THE PEOPLE (DIVERS) THAT WERE ON THE DIVE.

Seems the police info and account from friend said the plan was 200 on air and that 3 divers became distressed. The friends say that some of the divers were inexperienced How do any of you know what the instructor told the divers They planned the dive to 200’ according to friends and they went on air not trimix—do you think he should have given any warning to them?? IF he said anything, you dont! No one even knows if the instructor was with the other divers. NAUI and his family think the instructor was there. He could have just been diving at the same time! Give me a break!!! He was part of this dive team and the ring leader and he had a reputaion of being a mavrick . Also seems he has another dead buddy from another dive I dont think any of you have the right to comment on what the instructor did, and what should be done about it UNTIL actual FACTS are brought forth. I think anybody can looks at facts and make a judgment about them. This instructor is negligent. We on this board are divers with training. Peers of this instructor if you will—even those of us who are not smart enough to be an instructor like you anikin. We can look at the facts: air, 200’ AL80 ie not enough gas, night, low/ no vis, inexperienced divers, known affects of narcosis at those depths on air, water temp 40’s-50’s, beyond rec limits, untrained drivers for this depth, and not properly equipped. So I am guessing the reason you are so defensive is because, you as an instructor don’t see anything wrong with this dive profile.

I don’t know if Chad’s instructor is white, black, or some kind of illegal immigrant. I don’t know if he is a Republican, Democrat, or anti government zealot. I don’t know which team he is on gay or straight—might not even be on a team. I don't really care about that stuff. I do know based on info in this thread that he is most likely guilty of negligent homicide and that you stand in defense of such a man at worst and at best you don’t have enough reading comprehension to pick out the facts.

I am so sick of people saying you can’t judge anything. If someone walks up to you with a baseball bat and start swinging for your head as hard as they can---HOW DARE YOU JUDGE THEM!! Bet you would judge that they trying to harm you in a heart beat. You would take one simple action and make a whole lot of conclusions from that persons actions and if you are smart would have a reaction. You would judge. You wouldn’t know very much about that person—only that they are swinging a bat too close for comfort and would come up with a list of judgments and actions. How dare you judge without greater understanding of that person and where they are coming from!! Really how dare you!!

So let us take a look at the swinging bat in this case and make a little judgment shall we Anikin??


Facts From Post # 1Police received an emergency call just after 8:30 p.m. that the man hadn’t surfaced after a dive. Friends told police the man had indicated to his diving buddy he was having some sort of respiratory distress. All the divers except that man surfaced.

Visibility under water was limited, either because of darkness or the extra silt in the water from recent storms, Fulghum said.

Fulgrum is the police detective—did people lie to him when they told him what happened?? So if the cop is to be believed, it was at night because it gets dark around 6pmish these days. He was able to tell Steve an inexperienced diver as we find out in post # 7 that he was having a problem.

Facts from post #7

Found this on a local board ...
Quote:
I can across this forum looking for articles on one of my closest friends that died Thurs night. He is the missing diver from Tacoma (Lobster Shop Wall). I know nothing about diving. Just what I've heard during this tragedy. My buddy had 150+ dives under his belt. They were there just to go deep (probably too deep). The dive master was with them aswell well, along with 2 inexperienced divers. Chad's dive buddy said that they made eye contact with each other and decided to head up because John (chads dive buddy) was "narced up?" John headed for the surface when chad spotted the newer diver Steve on all fours on the bottom. About 200-211 feet down. I believe Chad was about at 180 at the time. Chad went down and supposedly John was suffering extreme Virtigo and was basically It extreme danger of losing his life. Chad went back down to Steve and brought him up to 160 before letting go. Steve said that Chad made a "noise" and motioned to his chest and started kicking for the surface. Thats the last anyone saw of one of my best friends and an incredible human being, again. Everyone who knew him is devastated as you might imagine. Just thought I'd let you people know.. Bryan
This breaks my heart. Chad was a good man ... just young and "invulnerable". Him and his friends were out to break a "personal best" depth record.

The fifth diver on this little adventure is a NAUI instructor. He should've known better than take two new divers on a dive to over 200 feet ... and on AL80's. If it were up to me, whatever his credentials, he'd never teach again.

Let me break it down for you some facts from the post

Guy quoted by the gratefuldiver claims to be Chad’s friend
Guy says buddy had 150 dives==that is a fairly new diver
Guy says he knew purpose dive was to go deep—and we know that they did
Guy says there was a DM
Guy says there were two divers with less experience than Chad
Guy says Chad’s buddy John narced and left him for surface
Guy says Chad saw Steve the inexperienced diver on all 4’s
Guy says Chad went after Steve
Guy says Chad motions to Steve problem and head for surface

So now according to this post we have Chad, John and Steve all in serious trouble

Grateful diver claims in his portion of the post that they went to 200’ on an AL80. Do you think it is safe to take new divers or any divers at night in low vis to that depth on an AL80. I noticed that you are smart instructor. Is this how you teach your students? I don’t mean to be a smart &(*^%^&%^(*&)*(&$$, but since you defend the other instructor, I must infer that you are of like mind on the instructor on this dive with his students.

By the way as I posted earlier in this thread. I called NAUI and they confirmed for me on the phone that they had the dive incident report and that this guy was no longer instructor after this incident happened. I sure hope Randy and NAUI didn’t lie to me.

They were diving air. Anikin, do you as an instructor know about the affects of narcosis? Do you know how it increases with depth and temperature? Do you think it is safe for an inexperienced diver to dive air at those depths?? Lets just say each of these divers have 20 AL80 each. Would you take them Aniken??? Would you??

Post #26 by rjack321

The water is cold 48-54F. Gloves are fat and clumsy. Visibility is (relatively) bad, 8 to 25 ft at the very most. It is dark at depths. Narcosis comes on (relative to warmer clearer waters) fast. Currents can really rip. You can get really deep on shore dives, without a boat captain around to kinda weed out those who don't belong.

Lots of intro divers are using AL80s but have high consumptions due to the cold, dark, and currents.

Rjack321 says the water is cold
Vis is bad
Area has currents
Claims that cold dark and current up air consumption

So let me ask do you see anything bad with info presented that as an instructor would cause you to call this particular dive?? Now I am no instructor by any means. Wouldn’t even call myself an experienced diver, just someone learning. So Anikin, let me ask you this is it routine for you as an instructor to just jump in the water at night with inexperienced divers without knowing the location that you are diving. We can infer one of two things here. They planned to go deep and went to a spot that was deep. Or they just jumped in water with no regard to the area or knowledge about where they were diving at night with no real plan. I am not sure which is worse. I kind of get the feeling the instructor had a plan, but maybe instructors like yourself don’t see the need for a plan and just say the the crew let’s jump in and suck air!!

 

[dsteding]

If the orginal account of Chads actions in returning to depth is correct and can be verified are there some other NAUI Instrs who would like to join me in nominating Chad for

ALBERT PIERCE MEDAL FOR HEROISM

Criteria

Any person is eligible who:

Successfully saved a life in an aquatics-related situation, and
Voluntarily exposed him/herself to grave personal risk of life, limb or continued health during the effort, and
Made a rescue effort clearly beyond the call of any explicit or implied duty. This is a key criterion that is intended to distinguish the actions needed for the award from those efforts normally expected and required of a NAUI Instructor in caring for students and divers in his or her vicinity, or for his or her personal students.
Nomination: by any NAUI member or by the rescued person involved

This is an absolutely wonderful idea. Whatever happened, he demonstrated some major courage to go back down and help that other diver.

 

[Sasquatch]

I'm conflicted on that suggestion. It would appear that the divers placed themselves in harms way. It may have been a noble effort but is it negated by the fact that the divers came to be there willingly?

 

[DandyDon]

I'm conflicted on that suggestion. It would appear that the divers placed themselves in harms way. It may have been a noble effort but is it negated by the fact that the divers came to be there willingly?

Well that is true it seems, at least - but it does sound like he was heroic, rather than leaving in panic...??

 

[cerich]

Well that is true it seems, at least - but it does sound like he was heroic, rather than leaving in panic...??

my best guess, yes the dive plan was crazy, yet there they were, he was less deep when he saw a diver "on all fours" below him in distress. at this point I'm sure the danger of the situation was pretty apparant yet he made the choice to go and assist. There is a good chance that had he not done so the other diver may not be here and Chad would be.
Just because the dive wasn't planned in a safe/prudent manner IMHO does not negate the selfless courage it would take to go deeper assist a diver, start the assent and then run out of air. From what I read earlier it doesn't sound like he left in a panic from helping someone else, he tried a free assent when he most likely ran out of air. Air used to assist another....

That is why if anybody who was there could confirm the earlier account it would be great.

 

[anakin]

So let me ask do you see anything bad with info presented.....

......the need for a plan and just say the the crew let’s jump in and suck air!!

OK, first of all, i wasnt defending the instructor. I wasnt defending anyone, i was defending the situation before it got out of hand and everyone (you!) was (were) deciding to hang the instructor. Im sorry you misunderstood me.

It took me a while to weed through the post you absolutly destroyed. It was hard to see what was quote, and what was new since it was just one big blob. Not to mention it has a lot of holes, and i think your making a lot of assumptions on internet 'hearsay'. So your post is hardly a reputable source since it is barely coherent. You should probably just slap yourself now.

The only thing the news article says (aka Post #1) is that there was 6 divers, one is missing and still missing. As well as there was limited visiblitly due to weather conditions. Friends told the police the diver had some respiratory distress. THATS IT! Now if you take into account Chads friends story, they were diving to depth 180 ft. But he even says he knows nothing about diving, so his opion isnt really valid other than he knows what depth they were at and who was there. He never mentions an instructor BTW, just a divemaster.

I have never gone to great depths with students, I myself have never been below 140' never intend to until i get further technical training. And the fact that you accuse me of this and not planning my dives is halarious.

I don’t know if Chad’s instructor is white, black, or some kind of illegal immigrant. I don’t know if he is a Republican, Democrat, or anti government zealot. I don’t know which team he is on gay or straight—might not even be on a team. I don't really care about that stuff.

I dont know what this whole part was about, i just figured you thought you were on a roll and decided to go with it....

I do know based on info in this thread that he is most likely guilty of negligent homicide and that you stand in defense of such a man at worst and at best you don’t have enough reading comprehension to pick out the facts.

You couldnt possibly say that he is guilty of negligent homicide. Forgive me for the cliche but if a man plans to jump off a bridge and then tells you to jump off with him, and you do, thats YOUR OWN FAULT! 150 dives is a fairly new diver, but he knows well enough that 200' is to deep to go on air, and that it is horribly dangerous!

...and that reading comprehension part is quite funny.

Im not going to continue any further into this, cause its getting out of hand already, which is why i made my first post originally. My condolances to the family, and i hope incidents like this will not occur in the future.


...oh yeah and its ANAKIN....not anikin.

 

[rjack321]

The only thing the news article says (aka Post #1) is that there was 6 divers, one is missing and still missing. As well as there was limited visiblitly due to weather conditions. Friends told the police the diver had some respiratory distress.

The body of the last diver (3 years ago) who died on basically the same dive (same wall, same gas, with the same instructor) was never found.

At the time of the dive, visibility was inches, its was like chocolate milk out there. We were having 100 year floods everywhere and the Puyallup River had jumped its banks and busted some levees. The river flows into Puget Sound about a few miles to the east of the dive site.

I sincerely hope someone can find and bring Chad's body back to his family.

Anakin, you are out of line IMO. Chad's family and friend's are reading this thread.

 

[dsteding]

And the fact that you accuse me of this and not planning my dives is halarious.

Hey, let's keep this civilized here.

We are all clearly not perfect, and mudslinging isn't really going to prove much, is it?

http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=2318701&postcount=53

i just worry about the 'half time' and the 500 psi sign, other than that who cares how much air you have.

[from a thread of a month ago]

Anakin, as an instructor please remember you too serve as an example for others on this board. We have a good community here, and I'm glad you participate. But, remember that comments like that linked to above (surely you were jesting, but such humor can be lost in translation) can easily be taken out of context by younger divers.

 

[Web Monkey]

OOA = Out of air

To some extent this is just like any other cold water location, yes. Although some of other places are pretty hard to get really deep really fast. Like NY/NJ, you're way way offshore before you're at 200ft. Ditto for Maine.

There's 300+ft of ocean within swimming distance of shore here.

We have that here too in a local lake (Skaneateles). You can hit 360' on a shore dive without even trying.

Luckily, it gets pitch black and cold (42F) way before 100', so it tends to keep the death toll down.

Terry

 

[DandyDon]

It is all to easy to become emotional about sad stories like this one - even tho we lack the whole story.

You couldnt possibly say that he is guilty of negligent homicide. Forgive me for the cliche but if a man plans to jump off a bridge and then tells you to jump off with him, and you do, thats YOUR OWN FAULT! 150 dives is a fairly new diver, but he knows well enough that 200' is to deep to go on air, and that it is horribly dangerous!

And that is very true.

But then, this often happens we Kangaroo Court is attempted here, rather than seeking the real purpose of the forum.