Lost Buddy Marker

[Cave Diver]

Ok. So far everyone that has responded are in favor of leaving a light. Lets take this to the next step.

Where and when would you leave the light?

Would you wait until you were done searching and exiting the cave? Or would you leave it (with a note) at the point you last saw your buddy as you continue your search further into the cave?

If you left it at the end of your search, would you leave it at the furthest point, or would you bring it back to the point of occurrence?

If you suspect your buddy went into a side tunnel, would you place the light there, or on the mainline intersection to it?

Feel free to expand on the rationale in your decision.

 

[Meng_Tze]

If there is going to be a marker it will have to be a universally accepted one that can be recognized as a targeted message under all circumstances.

• 
  If you are the lost buddy in clear vis and come across a tied light with a note: no issue.
  If you are the lost buddy in clear vis and come across a tied light: how do you know it is intended for you?
  If you are the lost buddy in no vis and come across a tied light with a note: no way to determine it is for you.
  If you are the lost buddy in no vis and come across just a tied light: no way to determine it is for you

This assumes you do not know if there are other divers in the system nor that you know your buddy's back up lights intimately both by touch and sight.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I would think it has to be at the point of separation. Or if you were on a jump maybe at the point where you return to the gold line.

 

[sea2summit]

If there is going to be a marker it will have to be a universally accepted one that can be recognized as a targeted message under all circumstances.

• 
  If you are the lost buddy in clear vis and come across a tied light with a note: no issue.
  If you are the lost buddy in clear vis and come across a tied light: how do you know it is intended for you?
  If you are the lost buddy in no vis and come across a tied light with a note: no way to determine it is for you.
  If you are the lost buddy in no vis and come across just a tied light: no way to determine it is for you

This assumes you do not know if there are other divers in the system nor that you know your buddy's back up lights intimately both by touch and sight.

I think everyone has their name or mark on their cookies/arrows, leave on with the light and if you come across it with your buddies cookie/arrow you know it is for you.

A problem may be retrieval of it because if the lost buddy leaves it there other teams may start searching which could lead to them becoming lost or pushing a little to try to "help" and getting in over their heads.

 

[PfcAJ]

My 'plan' (I don't really plan on doing this, but if I do...) is to drop an arrow pointing to OUR exit (sorry to everyone else who may come along) that has my name on it and search for as long as I reasonably can.

If I don't find my buddy, I'll leave my LED backup turned on (it burns a real long time) at the arrow I dropped. I will pull all my cookies and leave everything else (lines, his cookies, his deco gas, whatever) to indicate that I left and for him to shift gears and get out of the cave.

The reason that I'll leave it at the arrow I dropped is that it establishes a point of relative lostness. My buddy might end up exiting the same way and come across a big, obvious indicator of the exit direction and a resource that might expedite his exit if needed. If a rescue attempt is started, it gives them a reference point as to where I noticed that I was by myself (which should be pretty immediate).

I just hope that I never have to go though it all.

 

[piikki]

First of all, I was not taught about the light during cave course. Thanks to internet we discussed it with my regular buddy and agreed it is a good idea, and something we would do if needed. I would have no problem leaving a back up, and would consider leaving my longest burning, brightest back up if it came to it.

I would leave the light at the point of separation or where I begin the exit part. Not necessarily where I end the search as I might still stall during exit as gas allows but basically at the site of the search when I decide that I will have to start retreating. I would leave the light (on) and an arrow that my buddy knows is mine (and can feel is mine too). We have discussed that basically there is no need for a wetnote between the two of us, as the light indicates that “I have exited” but I would leave a note if I thought there is a chance for third part intervention.

I don’t think it’s the best idea to leave the light at the furthest point of the search as that might have the least chance of being helpful? (If I have ventured beyond the separation point). I would assume (and hope) my buddy is successfully attempting towards the exit, and thus hopefully the light towards that end might have more of a chance of acting as a helpful beacon/marker. I don’t know about the sidetunnel/main line, might depend how far in we had been when the separation happened.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Ok. So far everyone that has responded are in favor of leaving a light. Lets take this to the next step.

Where and when would you leave the light?

Would you wait until you were done searching and exiting the cave? Or would you leave it (with a note) at the point you last saw your buddy as you continue your search further into the cave?

If you left it at the end of your search, would you leave it at the furthest point, or would you bring it back to the point of occurrence?

If you suspect your buddy went into a side tunnel, would you place the light there, or on the mainline intersection to it?

Feel free to expand on the rationale in your decision.

Hmmm ... good questions.

OK, let's say I leave the light on the line at the point of separation. I leave it there because that's where we last saw each other and the logical place for either one of us to return to. I leave with it a note. It says "(buddy's name), if you find this light, take it and exit the cave". I conduct a search. When I come back to that point if the light's still there I replace the note with "(buddy's name), I have left the cave" and get the heck outta Dodge. If the light's gone, it's even simpler (just go).

I might even have these two notes pre-written in my wetnotes ... so if I need them all I have to do is write in my buddy's name, tear them out and use them.

All of this, of course, assumes you've discussed it with your buddy beforehand.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Cave Diver]

I might even have these two notes pre-written in my wetnotes ... so if I need them all I have to do is write in my buddy's name, tear them out and use them.

All of this, of course, assumes you've discussed it with your buddy beforehand.

That was the next point that I was going to bring up.

I was also thinking that you could probably fold the note over the line and secure it in place with a cookie.

 

[karstdvr]

is to drop an arrow pointing to OUR exit (sorry to everyone else who may come along) .

Not real big fan of this (sorry),but having an arrow pointing in the wrong direction can never be justified. If a lost buddy situation occurs,there could be as an example a silt out,now things have been complicated because of navigation arrows are pointing the wrong way,hence innocent parties could become victims. The accident at Madison that happened quite a few years ago was complicated by a line arrow pointing the wrong way in a silt out,and downloaded dive computers showed this navigation faux pas contributed to the accident. When something goes wrong ie lost buddy I don't think it is ever a good idea to change conventional wisdom in reference to navigation arrows.

I see interesting ideas on what to do if there is a lost buddy scenario such as wet note paper or back up lights,but I think prevention is very important. Very often you see people advertise on the internet they need a buddy for that weekend,and in which case they get together and do a dive. How much planning and discussion go into the dive,and include what to do in a seperation scenario? When I guide at a couple sites I add specific instructions for a buddy seperation so it is included in the dive plan. I have been cave diving for 15 years,and there has only been a couple instances where there has been a buddy seperation,but it was a temporary inconvenience because of predive planning and awareness.

 

[Meng_Tze]

....The accident at Madison that happened quite a few years ago was complicated by a line arrow pointing the wrong way in a silt out,and downloaded dive computers showed this navigation faux pas contributed to the accident. When something goes wrong ie lost buddy I don't think it is ever a good idea to change conventional wisdom in reference to navigation arrows.

....

The majority of this discussion seems to focus on exit marker/separation of buddy in a clear vis situation. There are instances where this has been in diminished/zero vis......... writing a note is not going to work there.