Logging dives towards instructor exam by hanging off anchor line at 20'?

[mislav]

...Of course maybe they were practicing their kneeling.

Haha Mike, good one!

And thanks OCD for clarifying...

There are so many of us hopelessly being landlocked and yet using every opportunity we might have to go for a dive and enjoy it. To me it's amazing that someone would do that. I do believe you guys of course, but personally - I honestly can't see the reasoning behind what that guy did. Even if he dived that site for 92 times before!

What kind of an instructor would he make if already he doesn't enjoy diving and wishes to improve his skills? What experience can he pass on to his students? Or are we going to see a new generation of rope-hanging divers soon? Just hook em up and dip them in?

If I were him, at least I'd go for the new deepest depth record! But, that's another story...

 

[MikeFerrara]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but...

Normally you have to be a certified diver for at least 6 months to become an instructor (it used to be a year). However, if I remember right, there is some kind of exemption for IDC centers that meet certain requirements. I don't have those standards, so I can't check that. Maybe someone else here can?

 

[mislav]

My understanding is that IDC centers offer six months programs for complete noobs (zero to hero) thus meeting the minimal requirement by PADI. They also offer over 200 dives during that period, so a diver gets more than a 100 logged dives for sure.

That's at least valid for Thai IDC centers where my friend recently signed up in one of their programs. I'm not aware whether there are any shorter versions of IDC internships.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Haha Mike, good one!

And thanks OCD for clarifying...

There are so many of us hopelessly being landlocked and yet using every opportunity we might have to go for a dive and enjoy it. To me it's amazing that someone would do that. I do believe you guys of course, but personally - I honestly can't see the reasoning behind what that guy did. Even if he dived that site for 92 times before!

What kind of an instructor would he make if already he doesn't enjoy diving and wishes to improve his skills? What experience can he pass on to his students? Or are we going to see a new generation of rope-hanging divers soon? Just hook em up and dip them in?

If I were him, at least I'd go for the new deepest depth record! But, that's another story...

I'm sure that every one is a little different but I think some people get a little too goal oriented. All that maters is getting the card. I don't think they are really thinking about what kind of instructor they will be. Maybe they just underestemate the importance of experience and think they already have enough.

I have another thought too. What if they really don't need any more experience? Maybe 6 months and 100 dives IS well beyond the experience an instructor needs to be able to do what the agency wants them to do? Again, I have to think that the agency would change the standards or something about the system if it's application wasn't accomplishing what they wanted it to. Just something to think about. Maybe these guys think they're pulling one over on somebody but personally I think it's the other way around. I think the agencies saw them coming and designed a systen just for them.

Just look at the priority some agencies place on "student recognition". Even instructors and dive shops are rewarded with pretty wall certificates or elligeable for new cert levels for certifying large numbers of divers. The whole system is perfect for badge collectors and what gets you the badge? Buying or selling certifications. What does the agency do for a living? Sell certifications.

I think the agencies are as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to diving but when it comes to marketing, they know their stuff.

 

[Scuba_Dad]

Other agencies make you assist in cavern/cave training before they let you teach it. PADI is the only agency that I know of (there may be others) that will turn you lose to teach in a cavern just because you say that you've done a few cavern dives.

I had a PADI cavern instructor card too just because I could. I never used it though. I started a few friends with line work on land and in OW but sent them to a real cave instructor for the rest.

Mike,
Maybe you need to review the PADI standards on what it takes to become a cavern instructor. Your generality "because I could" is very misleading. Can you quote the most current standards on what it takes to become a cavern instructor?

Al

 

[jviehe]

Maybe this should be in a more general forum; I don't know. But I observed it happening in south Florida, and since I spend almost all my SB time with the Conchs, here goes:

I am curious as to what most SB'ers would think about a diver getting in his (or her) last 8 or so dives (looking for the magic number 100...) so that he/she can take the PADI (I think) instructor exam, and by getting the "dives" in, I mean going out on a charter boat, and while everybody else is down on the wreck having fun, the diver (instructor-to-be) is going 20' down the anchor line, hanging for15-20 minutes, coming up, doing a surface interval, then going back down and getting in another "dive", all while the real divers are still on the wreck.

I don't really want to say exactly where this happened or even exactly when, but it was pretty recent, and it was for two consecutive trips. I think that translated to 8 "dives" for the soon-to-be-instructor.

Does this bother anyone except me? Is this the type of "dive experience" we want an instructor to have? What does anyone else think about this?

Im assuming these are rhetorical questions? If you have a complaint about PADI, they have various ways to be contacted. I think most of us would rather talk about diving in a positive way.

 

[wreckchick]

I think they just upped the requirement from Intro Cave to Full Cave for PADI Cavern instructors. Trust me when I say that Mike meets the standard.

R

 

[D_B]

I know what your talking aboot Mike when you say some shops reward for number of students trained
.... fortunately for me, my instructor is never on that list ... takes too much time with his students

 

[OCDinNC]

I know they pro-dive does this. It wouldn't surprise me to know that other training centers did as well. How else can they go from no experience at all to OW instructor in 1 month? Having 100 dives to teach a basic open water course is IMO adequate. Basic OW is (in its current state, and I wouldn't expect the criteria to change any time soon) basic.

I totally agree. Furthermore, I think it should be over 100 for DM, or at least at a bare minimum, 100 total in a wide variety of divesites and conditions. I had 50 lake dives and was almost certified master diver before I ever hit the ocean (not by choice I assure you). I took a lot of classes and dove my butt off. Before you laugh about lake dives, consider that probably 1/3 to 1/2 of those dives were solo (with a pony, etc), and often to a depth of 100-130', in a cold, dark lake. A good lake as far as lakes go, but not the ocean. And there's always a severe thermocline at 100', +-. No matter how warm the surface temp is. So we get it a lot colder at depth than any FL diving ever gets, even in winter.

That said, though I felt very confident as a diver, I knew I didn't know ocean diving at all, and it's a whole different animal. Current, waves, conditions... My 1st ocean diving was in Costa Rica, then Myrtle Beach, and since then, I've done lots of places in FL, Bahamas, Cayman, Wilmington, Morehead City, etc, as well as springs and caverns, and just getting ready to do Basic Cave. Got my TDI Deco Procedures and Adv Nitrox in. The point is, with almost 300 dives in a little over 2 years of diving, in a pretty wide variety of conditions, I feel I would make a good DM; I just haven't had time to do the drill yet. A DM to me should be almost super-human, able to rescue in almost any conditions, etc. Not a new diver that ran through a course in one location. Bring up some of those types of DM's to Morehead City and put them on the NC wrecks when a good day is 5-6' seas, and the current is ferocious, and we'll see how good they are, real quick.

 

[OCDinNC]

Im assuming these are rhetorical questions? If you have a complaint about PADI, they have various ways to be contacted. I think most of us would rather talk about diving in a positive way.

Last time I checked, SB was a forum. This is a discussion. When the group I was with was one the boat and saw and heard this happen, we discussed it privately. I know what we all thought, but we are not from FL, and since this is a forum, and in a forum you discuss events, opinions and ideas, I thought it would be valid to solicit other divers' opinions on it. That's all. I do not believe (my opinion only) that the requirements for instructor are set high enough, but that is my opinion. Yes, as another poster said, they may be high enough to do what they are being asked to do. But we never plan for emergencies to happen, and they sometimes do, and it would be worse with a student. The more experience a DM or instructor has, the higher the liklihood of a good outcome to an emergency which no one wants or can predict.

Yes, I can call or email PADI with a complaint. What's the point in that exactly? I doubt seriously they want to hear a complaint from a diver who's not certified with them... And please, PADI divers and instructors, don't get defensive on this. What I saw happen was not rhetorical. The questions I asked were. I just wondered what people think. That's all. It's a forum.