lionfish in Cozumel

[vladimir]

I don't think this is a real good idea. First, fish aren't "trainable". We're not dealing with Flipper or Shamu here. If they were trainable then Sea World would have a school of groupers flying through flaming hoops in formation (now that's a vision). I don't think so.

Fish are trainable, apparently, although they're probably not up to the flaming-hoop-in-formation trick just yet. Researchers in Brisbane trained damselfish in an aquatic Skinner box:

A series of studies has recently revealed that reef fish are surprisingly adaptable. Freshly caught wild fish quickly learn new tasks and can learn to discriminate among colors, patterns and shapes, including those they have never encountered. These studies suggest that learning and interpreting new stimuli play important roles in the lives of reef fish.

Read the whole very interesting article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/science/20creature.html?_r=1

 

[vladimir]

I am willing to call attention to a lionfish that I happen to spot to my divemaster, and in turn, expect he/she to take care of what he/she needs to do if possible, however, I am paying for a recreational dive, not a lionfish hunt. In other words, I put full faith in my Divermasters ability to provide excellent professional service and diving while at the same time addressing his/her responsibilities regarding lionfish, I however do not feel that fellow divers in my group should be included.

I might pay extra for a lionfish hunt. I don't want to dive with a bunch of freshly-minted sperfishermen, but also I don't think killiing a lionfish requires a ton of expertise. Like most fish that rely on venom for protection, flight is not their usual behavior. They just sit there begging to be speared.

 

[Sue Sue]

Sue, just wanted to point out that I don't believe the DM's have any real responsibility where lionfish are concerned. I have seen many who do actively seek out and kill the lionfish while others ignore them. I think most of the DM's in Coz are trying to control the lionfish though because they believe that will be best for their long term livelihoods.

Yes, I do agree. I do not believe that DM's are required to hunt/kill lionfish. However, those who choose to do so should be the only divers on a group recreational dive with the authority to do so.

 

[BTravlin]

Agreed, although I sure wouldn't mind bagging a few of them myself.

 

[geokr]

Fish are trainable, apparently, although they're probably not up to the flaming-hoop-in-formation trick just yet. Researchers in Brisbane trained damselfish in an aquatic Skinner box:

Read the article...interesting but I don't think it's the same thing. The fish in the experiment received positive reinforcement for their behaviors. Eating a venomous lionfish is not going to provide the same response. In fact, since there isn't a scientifically documented, routine predator for lionfish anywhere in the world I think the world community of fish has already been trained....to avoid eating lionfish. Sure, you might get some poor fool of a fish to do it once, maybe even in front of an observer but I doubt he'll do it twice. Somewhere and some time ago I posted a paper that showed groupers will avoid eating lionfish to the point of starvation. Just don't see this happening in the natural world.

 

[vladimir]

Yes, all good points. I was just responding specifically to your statement that "fish aren't trainable."

 

[robint]

so do you really believe that the lionfish in the Pacific are not being eaten by other fish? Of course they are, and the fish are not dying from venom. I would bet that the venom is similar to scorpions and other venomous land creatures - with the babies and juvies, the venom is not toxic at all.

 

[geokr]

so do you really believe that the lionfish in the Pacific are not being eaten by other fish? Of course they are, and the fish are not dying from venom. I would bet that the venom is similar to scorpions and other venomous land creatures - with the babies and juvies, the venom is not toxic at all.

If you can prove that you'll win something equivalent to marine biology's Nobel Prize. No one knows what the control is in westpac or the IO. If you do publish a paper.

 

[DandyDon]

Of course some fish are somewhat trainable. How many stories have we seen about different fishes expecting food from divers because other divers had been feeding them. Hell, I once trained an aquarium snail to beg - jeeze.

Juvi lions will have less toxin than large ones so there is hope that the native predators may start eating them, maybe even learn from other fish. I'd think they'd already tried this on their own, but taking them introductory couldn't hurt.

Nothing is likely to eat a 6-18" specimen tho, which is why they have no fear while swimming slowly in open water, and the pic that jlyle posted is easily recognizable swimming arrogantly in the water - but that size fish is going to devastate native juvi populations. I'm thinking a 12" Bar-B-Q fork strapped to the calf somehow, spear the fish in the soft abdomen, drop it for the crabs.

I don't want to go to a Mexican jail for it tho.

 

[vladimir]

I'm thinking a 12" Bar-B-Q fork strapped to the calf somehow, spear the fish in the soft abdomen, drop it for the crabs.

I like your thinking here Don. The BBQ fork would make an effective spear and it could double as a cooking implement if you decide to eat what you spear. Now we just need an appropriate sheath and some good Texas BBQ sauce.