Lion Air flight JT610 crashes into sea after take-off from Jakarta...

[Diving Dubai]

One wonders how long a list of other hidden (so far anyway) software/hardware bugs remain, awaiting enough of a body count to accumulate to justify 'fixes', and how long an informed flyer should wait before exposing his/herself/family to a version 1.0 airplane, or to a major revision of an airplane type ?

All designs have "iron birds" which flies the systems well in advance of the fleet on the ground. This is where the vast majority of problems come to light. some predicted by modeling some not.

Yes software bugs can stay hidden requiring a number of specific inputs to happen in the right sequance and in a certain time frame for something bad to happen.

While the agencies like teh FAA don't audit the design, they do assess it meets criteria. The manufacturer can find an issue but they cant' make the operators upgrade of fix, only their liciencign authority can do that.

Despite your cynicism its still too early to suggest that its a design issue - it could easily be a crew problem.

If it was a serious design error I'd expect a fleet grounding based on the ADR. After 2 weeks they know what happened, now they must figure out all teh steps leading up to the incident

 

[JamesBon92007]

Anyone know if the SouthWest plane that had an engine explode and kill a woman recently was also a Max 8?

 

[billt4sf]

‘Spend the Minimum’: After Crash, Lion Air’s Safety Record Is Back in Spotlight

It's behind a paywall for some, but here are a few highlights:

"The notorious safety record of Lion Air, Indonesia’s largest carrier and one of the world’s fastest-growing airlines, is back in the spotlight after the crash of Flight 610, which hurtled nose-first into Indonesian waters with 189 people on board just minutes after takeoff on Oct. 29.

......

"But even as the mystery of Flight 610 is still being pieced together, one thing is clear, investigators and aviation experts say: Few airlines were less prepared to deal with crisis than Lion Air.

"Interviews with dozens of Lion Air’s management personnel and flight and ground crew members, as well as Indonesian investigators and airline analysts, paint a picture of a carrier so obsessed with growth that it has failed to build a proper safety culture."

 

[Dogbowl]

‘Spend the Minimum’: After Crash, Lion Air’s Safety Record Is Back in Spotlight

It's behind a paywall for some, but here are a few highlights:

"The notorious safety record of Lion Air, Indonesia’s largest carrier and one of the world’s fastest-growing airlines, is back in the spotlight after the crash of Flight 610, which hurtled nose-first into Indonesian waters with 189 people on board just minutes after takeoff on Oct. 29.

......

"But even as the mystery of Flight 610 is still being pieced together, one thing is clear, investigators and aviation experts say: Few airlines were less prepared to deal with crisis than Lion Air.

"Interviews with dozens of Lion Air’s management personnel and flight and ground crew members, as well as Indonesian investigators and airline analysts, paint a picture of a carrier so obsessed with growth that it has failed to build a proper safety culture."

Paints a very bad picture. Extreme greed. I doubt I’ll give Lion Air a chance based on that article.

 

[scubafanatic]

Paints a very bad picture. Extreme greed. I doubt I’ll give Lion Air a chance based on that article.

That story is terrifying, makes me want to kiss the ground here and thank God I don't live in a 3rd world banana republic!

 

[chillyinCanada]

That story is terrifying, makes me want to kiss the ground here and thank God I don't live in a 3rd world banana republic!

I dive there. If I want that I've got to set my fears aside sometimes.

 

[billt4sf]

I dive there. If I want that I've got to set my fears aside sometimes.

Yes, but we have a policy of not flying on budget airlines in developing countries. I'm not at all sure that will get us safer flights, but seems worth it to us.

- Bill

 

[chillyinCanada]

Yes, but we have a policy of not flying on budget airlines in developing countries. I'm not at all sure that will get us safer flights, but seems worth it to us.

- Bill

I agree, however, have had to take Lion Air before due to limited options at that particular time. IIRC, it was within a week or two of Air Asia going in the drink.

 

[Bruce_Partridge]

Here is some publicly available information:

Satcom Guru: First Look at JT610 Flight Data

MCAS: Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System

 

[npole]

They must have realized pretty soon that the MCAS was acting erratically, in fact they were stopping the correction by applying nose up manual trim.
The question so is: why they didn't disabled the MCAS (as the pilots in a previous flight did..), or why they didn't left 1 notch flap (as this would have stopped the MCAS to operate), it seems they figured that extending the flaps would have stop the erratic behavior, in fact they extended them, but to retract them again soon after.
First Lion Air have left that plane on air with the MCAS not working properly (the previous flight could have ended with the same tragedy), second the pilots doesn't seem to have been instructed about all the airplane controls and how to react properly to a problem.
It's easy to critic after have read the data.. but it's their job, they should know all this stuff.