george_austin
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I'd go Aqua Lung but I'm an old US Divers brand loyalist. You'll love either of those regs.
Likes/Dislikes - Aqualung vs. Atomic
- Thread starter tdallen
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Well, I've watched this thread as long as I can without commenting.
Since the OP listed Aqualung and Atomic, and maybe Scubapro for his preliminary requirements: new reg, available service, price not important, reliability key, let me comment from both an old diver and service tech perspective.
1) Short answer, for THIS diver: Atomic. Hands down.
2) Piston vs. diaphragm - I won't get into that argument.
3) Sealed? ABSOF***INGLUTELY! Why? Because it's not about the ice. It's about what floats in the water; it's about salt plus anything else with dissimilar metals; it IS about sand or just plain muck in the reg. I've seen it; I've serviced it and it just KILLS me to see a good Mk 20 or Mk 25 that is 5-10 years old that is only one service interval away from a major part replacement due to scratching of the piston land because the back of the piston is open to the water.
4) Scubapro stopped sealing their pistons with the Mk10/Mk15 SPEC. A shame. That is one key to 3-year service intervals. I've even seen the same problem with $1400 titanium UNsealed Atomics. If you let the crap in, it scrapes against the piston land no matter how much you think you are flushing it out. Why not seal it and forget it?
5) Yes. Sealing a piston is a PITA compared with a diaphragm. No argument there. But now we need to talk about second stage advantages.
6) Atomic seat saver spring plus their silicone-like seat just doesn't take a set! They stay stable with minimal tuning changes for much longer than EVERY other reg from Poseidon to Aqualung to Scubapro. Why? Because the second stage seat doesn't get a groove from orifice pressure. They way it's tuned when it leaves the shop is the way it's tuned 2 years later. Add the zirconium coating and it's better than chrome. But wait! The 2nd stage valve is OPEN when you rinse your regs? OMG! Say it isn't so!
With Scubapro and Aqualung, I need to start with 0.1-0.3" more cracking effort to keep the second stage from freeflowing and bringing in an unhappy customer three months later. So much for giving best performance right out of the shop (1.0-1.2"cracking effort). Three months later, without a seat saver feature, all will freeflow slightly if tuned to the bottom of the range, as the LP seat takes a groove and essentially loosens up. So instead, I need to give the average diver subpar performance for the first three months.
I will concede that diaphragms and a few old and new pistons (Beauchat; Genesis) are easy to tune without reassembly. I will concede that sealing a piston is a pain with all that expensive Christolube goop everywhere. But that's not the diver's problem. It's the shop's burden. Give this guy a sealed Atomic; tell him to come back every year for a check and a little squirt of Christolube under the environmental seal, and he's done. No full service and parts for 2-3 years minimum. My personal Atomics? I haven't serviced the first stage in 5 years and the IP hasn't budged. Yes, the seconds need a little time in the ultrasonic every 1-2 years.
Give him Atomics and he'll have exactly what he asked for: reliability, quality, good performance.
Why doesn't Aqualung provide that?
Answer: old style second stage seats that need retuning; tight second stage tolerances that grit up with sand (the dive/pre-dive venturi sleeve).
I'll grant you that the AL Titan was a solid, if pedestrian combo. But it's not the latest and greatest.
Why doesn't Scubapro provide that?
They won't seal their pistons. All the rest of their great engineering and ice-tolerance is wasted.
I'll allow that a Mk 19 diaphragm might be a good alternative: no maintenance; no rinsing. But it doesn't come with the S620Ti unless you special order it. The G260 and A700? Both a little mouth heavy, IMHO. Much as I love heavy metal, I'm a convert when it comes to the 620Ti. But like I said, not an "approved" combo with the Mk19.
What have I left out?
Yeah, this is just one guy's opinion, but from a service perspective oriented toward the DIVER, not my hassle dealing with piston sealing, it's a slam dunk.
I dive Poseidon Cyklon, Poseidon XStream, SP Mk 10/G250; Titanium (and brass) Atomics; SP Mk 19/G260; Mk 5/109; HOG (meh); Apeks XTX200. They all work just FINE! But then I can service my issues myself. The above is my final answer.
Since the OP listed Aqualung and Atomic, and maybe Scubapro for his preliminary requirements: new reg, available service, price not important, reliability key, let me comment from both an old diver and service tech perspective.
1) Short answer, for THIS diver: Atomic. Hands down.
2) Piston vs. diaphragm - I won't get into that argument.
3) Sealed? ABSOF***INGLUTELY! Why? Because it's not about the ice. It's about what floats in the water; it's about salt plus anything else with dissimilar metals; it IS about sand or just plain muck in the reg. I've seen it; I've serviced it and it just KILLS me to see a good Mk 20 or Mk 25 that is 5-10 years old that is only one service interval away from a major part replacement due to scratching of the piston land because the back of the piston is open to the water.
4) Scubapro stopped sealing their pistons with the Mk10/Mk15 SPEC. A shame. That is one key to 3-year service intervals. I've even seen the same problem with $1400 titanium UNsealed Atomics. If you let the crap in, it scrapes against the piston land no matter how much you think you are flushing it out. Why not seal it and forget it?
5) Yes. Sealing a piston is a PITA compared with a diaphragm. No argument there. But now we need to talk about second stage advantages.
6) Atomic seat saver spring plus their silicone-like seat just doesn't take a set! They stay stable with minimal tuning changes for much longer than EVERY other reg from Poseidon to Aqualung to Scubapro. Why? Because the second stage seat doesn't get a groove from orifice pressure. They way it's tuned when it leaves the shop is the way it's tuned 2 years later. Add the zirconium coating and it's better than chrome. But wait! The 2nd stage valve is OPEN when you rinse your regs? OMG! Say it isn't so!
With Scubapro and Aqualung, I need to start with 0.1-0.3" more cracking effort to keep the second stage from freeflowing and bringing in an unhappy customer three months later. So much for giving best performance right out of the shop (1.0-1.2"cracking effort). Three months later, without a seat saver feature, all will freeflow slightly if tuned to the bottom of the range, as the LP seat takes a groove and essentially loosens up. So instead, I need to give the average diver subpar performance for the first three months.
I will concede that diaphragms and a few old and new pistons (Beauchat; Genesis) are easy to tune without reassembly. I will concede that sealing a piston is a pain with all that expensive Christolube goop everywhere. But that's not the diver's problem. It's the shop's burden. Give this guy a sealed Atomic; tell him to come back every year for a check and a little squirt of Christolube under the environmental seal, and he's done. No full service and parts for 2-3 years minimum. My personal Atomics? I haven't serviced the first stage in 5 years and the IP hasn't budged. Yes, the seconds need a little time in the ultrasonic every 1-2 years.
Give him Atomics and he'll have exactly what he asked for: reliability, quality, good performance.
Why doesn't Aqualung provide that?
Answer: old style second stage seats that need retuning; tight second stage tolerances that grit up with sand (the dive/pre-dive venturi sleeve).
I'll grant you that the AL Titan was a solid, if pedestrian combo. But it's not the latest and greatest.
Why doesn't Scubapro provide that?
They won't seal their pistons. All the rest of their great engineering and ice-tolerance is wasted.
I'll allow that a Mk 19 diaphragm might be a good alternative: no maintenance; no rinsing. But it doesn't come with the S620Ti unless you special order it. The G260 and A700? Both a little mouth heavy, IMHO. Much as I love heavy metal, I'm a convert when it comes to the 620Ti. But like I said, not an "approved" combo with the Mk19.
What have I left out?
Yeah, this is just one guy's opinion, but from a service perspective oriented toward the DIVER, not my hassle dealing with piston sealing, it's a slam dunk.
I dive Poseidon Cyklon, Poseidon XStream, SP Mk 10/G250; Titanium (and brass) Atomics; SP Mk 19/G260; Mk 5/109; HOG (meh); Apeks XTX200. They all work just FINE! But then I can service my issues myself. The above is my final answer.
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One word from me because no-one has mentioned it
The Aqualung has an ADC on the 1st stage, meaning when you remove it from a cylinder it mechanically closes the first stage stopping any chance of water ingress.
I have 4 Legend and Lux sets all are nice performers. I don't always get mine serviced when I should (no parts for life here) and they don't show problems
I also have Apex XTX 50 and like those too. They were purchased because they were on special and cheaper than the AL at that time. They're my training regs but I do miss the ACD having to go get a Din cap out of a bag before washing. a minor inconvenience I know, but it's often the minor details which swing the choice
The Aqualung has an ADC on the 1st stage, meaning when you remove it from a cylinder it mechanically closes the first stage stopping any chance of water ingress.
I have 4 Legend and Lux sets all are nice performers. I don't always get mine serviced when I should (no parts for life here) and they don't show problems
I also have Apex XTX 50 and like those too. They were purchased because they were on special and cheaper than the AL at that time. They're my training regs but I do miss the ACD having to go get a Din cap out of a bag before washing. a minor inconvenience I know, but it's often the minor details which swing the choice
Its a study of one but Eric is very pleased with his Legend and the ACD. We don’t care about parts for life programs or “routine” service recommendations so his will be 4 years since purchase with just post dive care. IP has remained solid and no issues thus far.
I have Al Mikrons that are at least 3 years without service as well. Not recommending others do this but just pointing out that recommended service intervals or not always the best guide for longevity of products.
We have SPs as well but our Aqualungs are our regs of choice.
I have Al Mikrons that are at least 3 years without service as well. Not recommending others do this but just pointing out that recommended service intervals or not always the best guide for longevity of products.
We have SPs as well but our Aqualungs are our regs of choice.
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Most shops charge an extra $30-60 for Christolube or Tribolube sealing.
The stuff costs $200-300/lb in bulk, and much more when you buy one ounce tubes.
It's not so much the cost, but the mess. You can't leave ANY bubbles in the chamber, so filling to slight excess creates a bit of a mess. There are filling tools that help a little, but still...
The Chesterfield Gold-End paste, if that's what you're referring to, is too thick for the chamber. It's a heavy PTFE used to lubricate/restrict IP screw drift in the Mk25. Never seen Gold used anywhere else in scuba, if we're talking about the same grease.
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