Level of Instruction

[MechDiver]

mudguppy once bubbled...
So, my question is: How is it I didn't learn of horizontally descending until I went overseas? Are the instruction manuals/instructors leaving some things out? Or am I the one not catching it to begin with?

Unfortunately I don't think you missed a thing. Having been through many OW classes, I think horizontal descents are purposely not talked about because, for whatever reason, most students would break their noses when they hit bottom. It would be nice to get there in AOW or Rescue level classes, but the "big agencies" have their way, and its pretty well set in stone.

I will not descend horiz in low or no vis unless I KNOW what is under me. If I know the bottom depth, when I get close, a fin goes down. If I don't know the depth or bottom composition, I go fins first and crossed.

Phil

 

[MechDiver]

O-ring once bubbled...


if the line is your lifeline and not just an "aid", then you are going to be in a world of trouble if you ever lose the line and cannot make a free ascent using a bag/spool

Agree completely. There's that training and equipment thing again. Have the right training and equipment for the dive. If it's a lifeline, I'm gonna have a reel on it, and still have a bag and spool besides.
I have a bag and spool when doing a 20 ft river dive. Ya never know...

 

[DiveTub]

MechDiver once bubbled...
Unfortunately I don't think you missed a thing. Having been through many OW classes, I think horizontal descents are purposely not talked about because, for whatever reason, most students would break their noses when they hit bottom. It would be nice to get there in AOW or Rescue level classes, but the "big agencies" have their way, and its pretty well set in stone.
Phil

PADI Open Water manual
Required Skills for Open Water Diver
Page 4 - 18 PADI Open Water Manual
Open Water Dive Three
"Free descent with reference to 20-30ft"
Page 4 - 19
Open Water Dive four
"Free Descent without reference no deeper than 60Ft

 

[MechDiver]

Sydney_Diver once bubbled...


PADI Open Water manual
Required Skills for Open Water Diver
Page 4 - 18 PADI Open Water Manual
Open Water Dive Three
"Free descent with reference to 20-30ft"
Page 4 - 19
Open Water Dive four
"Free Descent without reference no deeper than 60Ft

Yea, I was gonna ask when I saw your other post. I have not DM'ed since '97, but I cannot remember ever doing a free descent with students. We always had a surface float anchored to the bottom and they used the line. In AOW yea, but not OW. If they changed that, good. If its always been that way, my mind...what was the question?

Phil

 

[DiveTub]

Phil
That was quoted form the 1999 PADI Instructor manual
As far as I know they are also in the 1995 manual I will have a look tonight.

 

[AquaTec]

MechDiver once bubbled...


Yea, I was gonna ask when I saw your other post. I have not DM'ed since '97, but I cannot remember ever doing a free descent with students. We always had a surface float anchored to the bottom and they used the line. In AOW yea, but not OW. If they changed that, good. If its always been that way, my mind...what was the question?

Phil

If you remember you do several five point descents in the OW classes ocean dives

1- holding onto the line
2 - visualy observing the line
3 - turned away from the line [free ascent with a line]
4 - ascend with no line [open water freeascent]

and the same with the ascents

 

[sea nmf]

In my neck of the woods, visibility averages about 8 feet. On a really, really, good day, it is 40'. I'm not sure what you mean by limited visibility. Our night visibility is about 4', with the use of a light.

Also, to risk a HUGE backlash, I descend head first. No one has mentioned that. Oh well. No one teaches it so I'm sure it is incorrect. I have been practicing horizontal but I don't see the benefit over head-first. Feet first silts up the place in low visibility, in my opinion. Also, I really like to see where I'm going.

Now - a bit off topic. While on a recent vacation in Bonaire, we were told we MUST hold onto the descent line to get to the wreck. When I got in the water, I did not notice any current so I could not see the point. Oh, by the way, this was a day time dive with 50-80' viz. Since I was one of the last three in the group to descend, having observed the rest of the divers, I did not hang onto the line to descend. Now, what was THAT about? Walter, do you know why they required that?

 

[O-ring]

I did not hang onto the line to descend. Now, what was THAT about? Walter, do you know why they required that?

Walter will know more about it than I will, but having gotten reprimanded by a DM and a Captain for not holding the line I can relate to you what they told me. They didn't like it because they felt there was a greater chance that I would lose the line or experience a runaway ascent/descent. Goes back to what we were talking about earlier...they probably see so many divers that cannot control their buoyancy enough to make free ascents/descents that they do not like it when they see it happening. Our case was similar to yours...North Carolina, about 100' vis, very mild current. My buddy and I could see the trail lines from the top of the wreck, so rather than ascend up the anchor line and then cross the hangbar, etc., we just did a free ascent and safety stop directly under the trail lines and then popped up and grabbed them.

 

[DiverBuoy]

The 5 moorings on the Yukon are the only means of ascent and descent for everyone diving. Surge is very strong most days and vis averages 10 to 15 feet year round. At 105 feet, the light is already severly diminished. On overcast days you might as well consider it a night dive.

Once when diving right behind another group, I noticed the last diver in their group had the tank strap undone and the tank was completely hanging behind her. She was barely holding on, kicking her fins like crazy. Her head was bent backwards hanging onto the regulator. She let go of the line and almost instantly disappeared horizontally to one side because of the heavy surge.

I left the mooring line and while swimming in her direction I kept waving my divelight back and forth. She was trying to come back to me. I helped her back to the line, while holding the tank to relieve her strain, I grabbed her hands and pressed them onto the mooring line and squeezed them to indicated don't let go. I looked her in the face and could see she was terrified. I gave her the stop and calm down signal. I fixed her tank (which was a real pain because the band had been routed through the cam incorrectly.) After all that was done, I came around to her front-side and saw that she was bawling and very upset. I ascended with her to end the dive. It felt pretty great to have that line in 80 feet of water.

It was an eye opening experience about the dangers of letting go of the descent line in deep water with low vis and high surge.

 

[landlocked]

MechDiver once bubbled...
Most divers don't ascend and descend horizontally, nor is there any overriding reason to do so.

It is stupid to ascend free in low/no vis situations when there is a line available unless you want to prove how macho you think you may be. Free ascents in low vis are difficult and should be practiced to make the skill useful, but using lines to help implies nothing about your "skill".

Hanging off a bar for deco or saftey stops is different than using a DSMB and reel? You need, IMO, to get off your macho diver bit and get on with diving. Using aids to help during diving does not imply "lack of skills".

Thats me, a macho diver. I'm glad you noticed. Please tell my wife will you? She really needs to hear about it. :bang:

So.. here we go. Night dive. Some fresh water spring maybe Belmont (typical low vis) 30 feet deep, full moon. Swim out to the line. Assume a Vertical position, light in the left hand pointing down, line in the right. Decend until you touch the bottom. Stop and kneel on the bottom to get oriented. Commence diving. Return to the line. Assume a vertical position. Gauges in the left hand, um... light in the left hand pointing up? Line in the right hand. Ascend to safety stop. Hang on the line. Then finish the ascent. This is how you do it, right?

The question is.... at what point does the agency assume that they have taught me some skill. The point I was trying to make is that.... in reading the book I felt that the agency (it is not PADI) assumed that I have no skill.

This is a specialty book on Night and Low vis. NOT ON CURRENTS OR WRECKS OR EVEN DEEP DIVING. The book does not say a line may be a nice aid or that you may want to use one if you feel uncomfortable or that you may want to use one for a reference point. It says... vertical holding on with right hand. Period. Just like you do it right?