Lets look at things from a different angle.

[Diver0001]

Yes, yes, avoid and everything else will be fine. Train, learn and practice, but the OP's scenario was if both are OOA and cannot help each other. In that case it's a bit different and your options few.

Yes, but I think you have to ask yourself how realistic the scenario was and if it wasn't better to deal with it before it ever happened.

Most people who get themselves in deep s**T had ample opportunity to back away and choose not to.

That's not to say that the thread isn't valuable but the value is in discussing how to back away before it's too late.

R..

 

[matt_unique]

OK, let's run with that thought ... what skills have you learned strictly as a result of choosing to dive solo?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Mindset and gear.

Mindset - think about and plan for solving problems on your own. I'm not thinking about what my buddy can do for me or what gear he has to help me solve my problem. I will not do a dive with a buddy that I also do not do solo. A buddy should be a bonus, not a planned means of problem resolution.

Gear - two reels, two lift bags, two lights, two time/depth devices, two cutting devices, two slates for deco profiles, etc. It takes practice to manage this gear safely. I have had a reel jam while floating a bag (once). I simply reached around to my other side and floated the bag. I did not need to reach for my buddies bag/reel to accomplish my task. Once during a night dive both my buddy and I had flooded lights when we reached the wreck for example. While both examples could be resolved via a buddies gear, this forces a buddy reliance and dimishes gear options by half.

--Matt

 

[Gary D.]

Tunnel vision, remember tunnel vision. Get rid of it. Look outside of the tunnel I created and later tried to eliminate.

So two OOA at the same time is unlikely. Maybe it is but how many air hogs get paired up, get distracted and get low enough on air to be a concern. So let’s forget this scenario.

Double entanglement, forget this one as well. Those that think you can simple swim out of or cut yourself out of a net, fine. Keep that mindset. Those small nets that can be carried and draped over a diver are easy to get out of. But when there is an unexpected or freak current change that rolls a commercial net over the top of you, is it that simple? Ever seen a commercial net? Go see one, it might change your mindset. I don’t know of a dive knife that will cut all of the stuff they make those non-rotting hazards out of.

So go somewhere else with your thinking. Broaden your view to where both divers are separated and get into trouble.

Like one unexpectedly goes into violent convulsions on the bottom. A hose is broken off in the thrashing over the rocks and the air is gone. You go to help and for some reason have a major problem.

Do you have the mindset and the skills to get out of the problem?

Replace the word "Solo" with "Alone" or "By yourself" or whatever local word means "No flippin help available for you".

It’s going good but let’s leave the tunnel.

Gary D.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Definitely agree with Matt on this. There is a different mindset once you start seriously and purposely diving solo as opposed to "oops where did joe go?" For me this has carried over to diving with a buddy and even a group situation. I do not consider it overconfidence in my abilities or skills. Just that now I think more about how I can get myself out of a jam should a problem happen. To me this translates into being more conscious of my skills, experience, and equipment. As a result I've sought more information, training, and added to my redundant gear list without going crazy and looking like someone who just hit the lottery and went nuts in dive shop. Things I don't think I would have considered as essential or necessary have become second nature to possess or keep handy as a result of diving solo. My save a dive kit is one example that has carried over out of the water. Unless I should run into a situation where my reg fails completely and needs rebuilt I can fix most any problem on my own. BTW should this happen I just grab my spare reg setup. I even have a spare BC that could be used should mine develop a leak or whatever. This gear goes with me on every local dive. Travel is a different story but still being more gear conscious means I'm more aware of my stuff. I can always rent an extra bc. But when I go to key largo in May my spare reg is going with me. And I'm putting together a travel save kit to send with my gear. I'm shipping my bc, fins, and suits. Along with some other stuff that's not going into my carry on but I want to have at hand. A buddy is great to have if communication is good and they are able to handle themselves. Some one who cannot communicate effectively and handle themselves in the particular situation and environment is not only inconvenient but also a liability and risk to the team and even the entire group. I'd rather be solo than dive with a trainwreck.

 

[Diver Dennis]

That's very nice. It looks good in print and has the effect of making the reader feel MOMENTARILY at ease, till the fecal matter hits the spinning blades. ahhhhhhhhhhh, avoid, everything else will be fine. OK, Rotrunner, btw, it was not directed at you or anyone else but the person that started the thread, for whatever reason, #1 was not possible and you are at 120 ft with you and your buddy ooa. Now what? You are entangled, broken hose, whatever. What are your options? The surface, that's IT! No trainning, cert, or mindset can alter the fact you need air, you and your buddy are out of it, and the surface is your only option.

It'll save a lot of key strokes if you just address that scenario.

What's up with the name calling sir? I believe his username is Diver0001...

 

[Zoomer]

Two divers, buddies, are at 120 ft and both out of air, for whatever reason? If no one is near you then you have to drop weights and rocket to the surface. I hope you have DAN or PADI ins because, if you are lucky, you'll need it. I know of NO training, certification level, mindset, or practice of self reliance that will mitigate your need to get to an air source, no one around with an octo to give you, and that is the surface. If somone knows a different way, I'd like to hear about it?

If this actually happens then someone has selected them for removal from the gene pool... two divers, 120 fsw, both OOA at the same time? please....

 

[Diver Dennis]

I agree with you Warnberg. Highly improbable scenario and the solution is proper training in the first place.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Mindset and gear.

Mindset - think about and plan for solving problems on your own. I'm not thinking about what my buddy can do for me or what gear he has to help me solve my problem. I will not do a dive with a buddy that I also do not do solo. A buddy should be a bonus, not a planned means of problem resolution.

Gear - two reels, two lift bags, two lights, two time/depth devices, two cutting devices, two slates for deco profiles, etc. It takes practice to manage this gear safely. I have had a reel jam while floating a bag (once). I simply reached around to my other side and floated the bag. I did not need to reach for my buddies bag/reel to accomplish my task. Once during a night dive both my buddy and I had flooded lights when we reached the wreck for example. While both examples could be resolved via a buddies gear, this forces a buddy reliance and dimishes gear options by half.

--Matt

That's all valid ... however it addresses preparation, not skills. My question was "what skills have you learned strictly as a result of choosing to dive solo?"

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[matt_unique]

Tunnel vision, remember tunnel vision. Get rid of it. Look outside of the tunnel I created and later tried to eliminate.

So two OOA at the same time is unlikely. Maybe it is but how many air hogs get paired up, get distracted and get low enough on air to be a concern. So let’s forget this scenario.

Double entanglement, forget this one as well. Those that think you can simple swim out of or cut yourself out of a net, fine. Keep that mindset. Those small nets that can be carried and draped over a diver are easy to get out of. But when there is an unexpected or freak current change that rolls a commercial net over the top of you, is it that simple? Ever seen a commercial net? Go see one, it might change your mindset. I don’t know of a dive knife that will cut all of the stuff they make those non-rotting hazards out of.

So go somewhere else with your thinking. Broaden your view to where both divers are separated and get into trouble.

Like one unexpectedly goes into violent convulsions on the bottom. A hose is broken off in the thrashing over the rocks and the air is gone. You go to help and for some reason have a major problem.

Do you have the mindset and the skills to get out of the problem?

Replace the word "Solo" with "Alone" or "By yourself" or whatever local word means "No flippin help available for you".

It’s going good but let’s leave the tunnel.

Gary D.

If your post is directed at me, I was responding to a question from NW. Are you asking all those involved in the solo/team dicussion to take it elsewhere? I could be misunderstanding you completely.

No diver has the mindset and skills to get out of every conceivable problem including some of what you described above. If you're diving and all of a sudden you're scooped up in a commercial drag net most likely it's all over. One would be foolish to think they could get out of every jam, including the best solo divers or the best DIR team. I'm thinking about the most likely challenges I will encounter when I reference gear and mindset above, not a mindset or gear configuration that I think will get me out of every possible jam.

--Matt

 

[The Chairman]

Multiple failures are impossible to plan for.

As I teach my students, don't be OOA and OOB at the same time or you are OOL.

In thousands of dives I have yet to see this scenario. If you don't push your limits (air/depth/time) you will have many years of safe diving. If you constantly fret over "what-ifs" in an open water diving environment, then you should seek professional psychiatric help or stop diving. Diving isn't for everyone and "scubaphobia" is a definite contraindication to participate in this wonderful sport.