Lessons to be learned....
- Thread starter Cozoholic
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Hooked4Life:
I wouldn't say anything to the diver or the DM. If what I saw was in my opinion harmful to the animal they were touching or deliberately damaging to the coral (breaking off a fan coral for a keepsake, for example), I'd say something to the owner of the diver operation. It's their call how to handle it. Hopefully, they'd corroborate your version with the DM and then make a decision whether to prevent the offending diver from diving or not.
As for touching, when it comes to coral, there's some common sense that needs to be applied. Some corals are so delicate that any touch will kill them, other corals are less so. The only time I'd have a need to touch coral is on a dive with a very rapid current. If my choices are holding on to a piece of coral to wait for my dive buddy or dive apart from her, I'd find the least delicate piece of coral I can find (preferably coral rock) and hang on. Coral is, in my view, best enjoyed with the eyes. As for wildlife, my stroking an eel, touching a turtle, or petting a shark (my personal favorite) is certainly less damaging to them than what will happen to them by their surrounding aquatic life. These are animals that eat each other. If you choose to touch them doing so comes with risks (not the least of which would be the loss of diving priviledges). These are wild animals. One encountering a cute raccoon in the woods would be unwise to try and pet it. Still, there's nothing like having a gentle tug-of-war with an octopus chowing down on to a conch.
GPdiver:
You can use a light whenever you please - but please dont harrass the creatures.
Funny thing though - I feel bad 'waking up ' the fish on the night dives..i yell at Will for shining the lights in their faces - HOW WOULD YOU LIKE A LIGHT SHONE IN YOUR FACE during nap time??
Damselfish
Contributor
I've read about blind divers, enjoying the weightlessness and the sounds. I don't get it either but who am I to say.
Whatever else these people may have been doing, I sure don't see a problem with using a light to peer in all the nooks and crannies. I think that's great. Better than people who swim like crazy and miss everything.
Don't touch is a good rule in general especially if any doubt, but I wouldn't go ballistic over a careful finger in bare sand. And I've been told that gently brushing gorgonians is fine.
And all the arguments for and against kids divng aside, I wouldn't call people morons for teaching their 13 rear old to dive without knowing more.
Maybe relax a little?
Whatever else these people may have been doing, I sure don't see a problem with using a light to peer in all the nooks and crannies. I think that's great. Better than people who swim like crazy and miss everything.
Don't touch is a good rule in general especially if any doubt, but I wouldn't go ballistic over a careful finger in bare sand. And I've been told that gently brushing gorgonians is fine.
And all the arguments for and against kids divng aside, I wouldn't call people morons for teaching their 13 rear old to dive without knowing more.
Maybe relax a little?
Damselfish:
Correct -gently brushing gorgonians will not kill them - However that doesnt make it right ! During another dive I saw the mother touching an anenome showing her son how it retracts...They are teaching him that its ok to touch the coral. When, in my opinion, they should be the example to their son rather then teaching him bad habits...I didnt hear the coral lesson on the boat as to what is and what is not ok to touch. So how would he know the difference? Mommy and daddy are doing it, why cant I?
While I love diving, the bottom line is, we dont belong down there. We are privledged to have seen the beauty and it should not be touched for others after us to enjoy. Touching their world is selfish and has no benefits to the average diver.
I agree with the no touch rule. I think it was started and implemented for two reasons and now it is repeated without thought. First, for safety. This rule was started for people who touch everything without knowing what it is they are touching. They could be touching a poisonous coral or shell with a dart or a venomous animal. Next, for those who abuse the touching. You cannot have a rule that leaves it up to the diver to decide so the rule is absolute. Some people will hole onto delicate coral, breaking the ends off.
I think touching is safe in most cases for divers, coral and animals. Like stroking a soft coral, like nemo getting into the palm of your hand, like stroking a moray or petting a shark. I think this is safe. I do not think it is right because the rule has to be absolute to protect the reef from some divers and also to protect these same divers from themselves.
I think touching is safe in most cases for divers, coral and animals. Like stroking a soft coral, like nemo getting into the palm of your hand, like stroking a moray or petting a shark. I think this is safe. I do not think it is right because the rule has to be absolute to protect the reef from some divers and also to protect these same divers from themselves.
Hooked4Life
Guest
Since I am the other half and have seen a few things on these dives I will give my 2 cents. First of all No I dont get so excited about this, but yes it does bother me. Let me preface to say that I have kept a Reef Aquarium for close to 10 years now. I have propagated my own corals, started a Reef Aquarium Society to educate other ReefKeepers. I have read and have many books on reefs, corals and reef fish. Being so... knowledge of the reef and its inhabitants is not a major chapter in OW certification. Since most people are not educated in the reef it is very easy to misuse the reef. Why? Because they do not thoroughly understands the affects of touching corals or other inhabitants. When I dive do I touch the coral? No I do not because there is absolutely no reason to. If someone wants to learn how corals react to movements there are many good books out there.
So what is my point? The point here is leave things how you found them. Sometimes you need to touch the sand to take a pictures, adjust your equipment, or hold on to a piece of live rock due to rough currents. There is absolutely no justifiable reason to act like you are in a petting zoo. The corals do no need our loving affection and they spawn quite well without us. That being said.. some people may touch a starfish, arrow crabs, coral banded shrimp..ect. I am not preaching that this is wrong.. just please do a little reading before hand. The knowledge will not only help you make decisions, but it will also help you educate others. It also doesnt make you look bad at a surface interval. We are all guests of the reef.
So what is my point? The point here is leave things how you found them. Sometimes you need to touch the sand to take a pictures, adjust your equipment, or hold on to a piece of live rock due to rough currents. There is absolutely no justifiable reason to act like you are in a petting zoo. The corals do no need our loving affection and they spawn quite well without us.
That being said.. some people may touch a starfish, arrow crabs, coral banded shrimp..ect. I am not preaching that this is wrong.. just please do a little reading before hand. The knowledge will not only help you make decisions, but it will also help you educate others. It also doesnt make you look bad at a surface interval. We are all guests of the reef.
Hooked4Life:Since I am the other half and have seen a few things on these dives I will give my 2 cents. First of all No I dont get so excited about this, but yes it does bother me. Let me preface to say that I have kept a Reef Aquarium for close to 10 years now. I have propagated my own corals, started a Reef Aquarium Society to educate other ReefKeepers. I have read and have many books on reefs, corals and reef fish. Being so... knowledge of the reef and its inhabitants is not a major chapter in OW certification. Since most people are not educated in the reef it is very easy to misuse the reef. Why? Because they do not thoroughly understands the affects of touching corals or other inhabitants. When I dive do I touch the coral? No I do not because there is absolutely no reason to. If someone wants to learn how corals react to movements there are many good books out there.
So what is my point? The point here is leave things how you found them. Sometimes you need to touch the sand to take a pictures, adjust your equipment, or hold on to a piece of live rock due to rough currents. There is absolutely no justifiable reason to act like you are in a petting zoo. The corals do no need our loving affection and they spawn quite well without us.
Will, you just made me smile
I loved your analogy and informative approach to this. I don't think it's any secret how I feel about the issue...so I was trying to stay out of this
I'm going to have to use that line with my students/divers "There is no reason to act like we are in a petting zoo...and the corals don't need our loving affection..." I actually giggled when I read that...great way to put it...thanks
I saw you guys leaving La Cocay Friday night...but I was at a table back in the corner and couldn't really get up and dash over...sorry I missed you and Becky, but glad to hear you had a great trip and enjoyed La Cocay!
Best,
Christi
Hooked4Life
Guest
Christi: Its funny that when I was typing the message I was thinking if you would reply. I actually try to refrain from my comments about this subject but to be honest my feelings for the reef are well known. I figured someone would like the coral loving anology. I didnt see you at La Cocay but I was trying to rush out of there before I could drink any more cervesa. The food there is really amazing. I felt more like in a restraunt in NYC then in Mexico. They just need a bug zapper for the skeeters.
Reef Educational books can be borrowed, from Will's library, on request. (Just joking)
I actually try to refrain from my comments about this subject but to be honest my feelings for the reef are well known. I figured someone would like the coral loving anology. I didnt see you at La Cocay but I was trying to rush out of there before I could drink any more cervesa. The food there is really amazing. I felt more like in a restraunt in NYC then in Mexico. They just need a bug zapper for the skeeters.Reef Educational books can be borrowed, from Will's library, on request. (Just joking)
Hooked4Life:Christi: Its funny that when I was typing the message I was thinking if you would reply.
Reef Educational books can be borrowed, from Will's library, on request. (Just joking)
Yes, we share the same feelings about the reef preservation...my most emotional posts all revlve around reef destruction or animal molestation...haha!
Anyway...thanks again for the great analogy and for being as passionate as I am about marine preservation
Time for sleep...I'm actually DM'ing tomorrow...YEHHHH!
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