Leisure Pro bait and switch still happening - warning.

[muzikbiz22]

Why "obviously"? LP did sell Force Fins at one time. How long does it take Google to make such a change?

It's not up to Google to "make such a change" to LP's website. It finds the words or verbage on LP's own website and reports them to the searcher. The concept is simple, "Gee, we don't sell Force Fins anymore, (if that is in fact the case), change that page of our website and delete the words Force & Fins". Done.

 

[mike_s]

Lately what has turned me off Leisurepro is how they manipulate Google search results. The store often pops up near the top with promising info, but when you enter the site there's nothing relevant. It's a great way of losing business.

Adam

A dive shop I know used to sell Aqualung gear. They had it on their web page, but you couldn't buy it online (it said online sales were not allowed).


well .... this dive shop learned how to better build their web page so that it was a "better match" for 'aqualung Legend' than anyone else. So when you went and searched for it, it came up with this LDS in the top of the list, even about Aqualung's own corporate site.


Aqualung complained to the LDS that their site was coming up before theirs in Google. I laughed at that..... because the LDS was doing nothing wrong but Aqualung still whined because they thought they were "better"and should be first, when in reality the other guy just understood "the system" and how it worked and made it work best for him.


This is similar. LP just includes Key Words that "GoogleBot" catches and includes in it's searches. I did the same thing recently when selling some hunting equipment. I included other 'keywords' that hunters would likely search for, such as Browning and Remington. I did this to increase my number of hits by people searching for it on the local forsale website. IT WORKS.

Just like it worked for LP.

 

[Bhtmec2]

I have used LP for a while and had order problems 2 times out of all. I did not feel that it was a bait and switch when they offered an alternate which was a better item for the same price and I declined as I wanted a specific item. They also fixed their availability when I raised that issue.

Keeping a data base up to date is hard with that much gear so I can not have hard feelings. I was pissed but that passed. I have had much worse problems with another online scuba store.
just my 2 cents

 

[scubamarketing]

I had a better example, but here's one: Google search "Force Fins" and I get this link

Buy Force Fins from Leisure Pro

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=15&ved=0CK4BEBYwDg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leisurepro.com%2F1%2F4%2Fforce-fins&ei=4roXT_zbBIWfiQLCo7zhCA&usg=AFQjCNEkPotFrULWNxYdCV5VzykHFVDfgg&sig2=aYRvGxZFoEbXrx7634CdIg

when you go there there are no Force Fins. They obviously put in "Force Fins" in the website to catch someone looking for Force Fins and direct him to other fins they sell.

This was actually the example I mentioned previously. I've done tests on completely clean searches (not logged in, no cache, no cookies) and I don't see ANY ads when doing a search for "force fins". I've had a few friends from other locations try it and they don't see any ads either.

Why "obviously"? LP did sell Force Fins at one time. How long does it take Google to make such a change?

That appears to be the "issue", we still keep models we carried on the site because people still like to look at the reviews and info on the items. I guess we're just SEO optimized and Google doesn't really look at in stock/out of stock for search results.

The phrase "Force Fins" is on the Leisurepro website page not Google. Yet that same page has no Force Fins. So you think this phrase got there by random chance? Not likely. They put in these phrases to catch the Google search engine. If the site did sell Force Fins there would be no need to add such a trap phrase it would pop up naturally, because that phrase would be used in the product description.

As I mentioned above, the phrase "Force Fins" is still on our web site because we previously sold them, have quite a few customer reviews and additional info on them. Furthermore, the link provided above shows up in SERP's for "Force Fins" because customers mention "Force Fins" in their product reviews which show up on our site.

It's not up to Google to "make such a change" to LP's website. It finds the words or verbage on LP's own website and reports them to the searcher. The concept is simple, "Gee, we don't sell Force Fins anymore, (if that is in fact the case), change that page of our website and delete the words Force & Fins". Done.

We don't censor reviews for mentions of products we no longer carry so it's not so simple to just delete the words "Force" and "Fins" from our site. My Apollo Bio fins provide enough force to get me through any current...

A dive shop I know used to sell Aqualung gear. They had it on their web page, but you couldn't buy it online (it said online sales were not allowed).


well .... this dive shop learned how to better build their web page so that it was a "better match" for 'aqualung Legend' than anyone else. So when you went and searched for it, it came up with this LDS in the top of the list, even about Aqualung's own corporate site.


Aqualung complained to the LDS that their site was coming up before theirs in Google. I laughed at that..... because the LDS was doing nothing wrong but Aqualung still whined because they thought they were "better"and should be first, when in reality the other guy just understood "the system" and how it worked and made it work best for him.


This is similar. LP just includes Key Words that "GoogleBot" catches and includes in it's searches. I did the same thing recently when selling some hunting equipment. I included other 'keywords' that hunters would likely search for, such as Browning and Remington. I did this to increase my number of hits by people searching for it on the local forsale website. IT WORKS.

Just like it worked for LP.

I don't do SEO or ads for the main site, but I do SEO for our blog and you're spot on for how it works. While I completely understand when someone says "No fair! You rank above me for my brand name!", SEO isn't really that tough, especially in this industry.

 

[coldwaterlloyd]

Weirdest thing about Leisurepro I have found is their low price item and over the top shipping fees , has turned me to another site more than once .

 

[scubamarketing]

Weirdest thing about Leisurepro I have found is their low price item and over the top shipping fees , has turned me to another site more than once .

I've heard this more than once, but every time I do a check of 4 items that us and competitors carry (BCD, reg, mask, snorkel - that way I get a good price range & sampling), our shipping is the same price and orders over $50 are free. I live in Oregon, LP is in NYC, one of our competitors I check is in California, yet it's still the same shipping price. According to my UPS employee friends, prices are done by weight and zone, so the CA store should be charging me less shipping, but they don't. With so many items though, I know my experiments aren't conclusive.

 

[coldwaterlloyd]

I've heard this more than once, but every time I do a check of 4 items that us and competitors carry (BCD, reg, mask, snorkel - that way I get a good price range & sampling), our shipping is the same price and orders over $50 are free. I live in Oregon, LP is in NYC, one of our competitors I check is in California, yet it's still the same shipping price. According to my UPS employee friends, prices are done by weight and zone, so the CA store should be charging me less shipping, but they don't. With so many items though, I know my experiments aren't conclusive.

It is an International thing with LP . They will ship an item for free within USA and then charge high UPS rates to Canada with no option for USPS . I buy a lot of gear online , the shipping rates to Canada are too high from Leisurepro , UPS is expensive agreed but without postal option I end up buying at scuba.com or scubatoys.com , same price less shipping fee .

 

[scubamarketing]

It is an International thing with LP . They will ship an item for free within USA and then charge high UPS rates to Canada with no option for USPS . I buy a lot of gear online , the shipping rates to Canada are too high from Leisurepro , UPS is expensive agreed but without postal option I end up buying at scuba.com or scubatoys.com , same price less shipping fee .

I'll admit I'm not too well versed on the international shipping side of things. I know the Australians regularly tell me even with shipping we beat the local prices I did a test with a dive computer I was able to find on our site and two of the other big ones and we all charge the same price for shipping to Canada, ~$35.

 

[t-mac]

Nick, you're a pro -- compliments on handling this storm. I don't know what your business practices really are and I'm not here to defend them if you are taking advantage of people, but your explanations to the bait-and-switch stuff, etc. are reasonable and certainly your willingness to provide explanations to every post is helpful to me. Personally, I would have lost my patience with shipping charges discussion. In today's world, especially when buying online, it's not like we are helpless and must buy from LP in spite of your outrageous shipping charges! It's quite easy to shop around and see through that so I have no sympathy. If the shipping is too much, it's easy to go somwhere else. I've bought many things from LP and have never had a problem. I have had to send a couple of things back, but also have no complaints with that process either. I have seen better deals and better shipping rates elsewhere sometimes and I have not ordered from LP in those cases. That's my right and your problem, but I'm not complaining and I'll continue to shop there.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

On shipping internationally LP really doesn't have much say. UPS is full goose bozo on shipping overseas. I can send a reg to Australia for around 30 bucks USPS. The min for a package via UPS is close to $80. Europe is just as bad. Then it is UPS not the retailer that packs on taxes and duties as well as transfer and administrative fees. If LP can send or will send to Canda for 35 that's damn cheap if using UPS. My only option for doing it that cheap would be to drive to Canada with the item and ship in country if I could get through customs etc with it. A friend had to do that with some items he was selling. Drive across the river and ship USPS flat rate.