Legalities of VIP inspections/ Inspectors

[Bowtie22]

I am a member of a fairly new public safety dive team. Since we are a new team there are a lot of aspects that have been over looked. I am one of the most experienced divers on the team and I am trying to fill in all of the gaps now. I went through our tanks the other day and found that approx. 30 of them were over 2yrs out of VIP. I have since convinced them that it would save the agency a lot of money yearly by getting me certified to perform the VIP's. So in 2 weeks I am attending a PSI course so that I will be certified.

Now I know that I will be covered by my agency's insurance for anything that is done to our tanks or done under the agency but lets say that I do my own tanks or a friend. (Being in my line of work I know that people can and will sue for anything and everything) With that being said lets just say that someone’s tank ruptured and injured someone. And lets say that it was determined that if the tank was inspected properly that the inspector should have found the deficiency and deadlined the tank. What type of insurance could/ should I get to protect me against this type of liability. Also, what is the liability of the inspector?

Any input is greatly appreciated....

 

[PhilEllis]

I am a member of a fairly new public safety dive team. Since we are a new team there are a lot of aspects that have been over looked. I am one of the most experienced divers on the team and I am trying to fill in all of the gaps now. I went through our tanks the other day and found that approx. 30 of them were over 2yrs out of VIP. I have since convinced them that it would save the agency a lot of money yearly by getting me certified to perform the VIP's. So in 2 weeks I am attending a PSI course so that I will be certified.

Now I know that I will be covered by my agency's insurance for anything that is done to our tanks or done under the agency but lets say that I do my own tanks or a friend. (Being in my line of work I know that people can and will sue for anything and everything) With that being said lets just say that someone’s tank ruptured and injured someone. And lets say that it was determined that if the tank was inspected properly that the inspector should have found the deficiency and deadlined the tank. What type of insurance could/ should I get to protect me against this type of liability. Also, what is the liability of the inspector?

Any input is greatly appreciated....

I am not a lawyer, but I can give you a business owners lay opinion........

The liability of the inspector is whatever a jury decides it is. All it takes is a suggestion that you acted with negligence and a lawsuit might occur. At a minimum, a person doing ANYTHING related to scuba should have general liability insurance, along with errors and omissions insurance. On any policy, you should question the degree to which the policy covers the legal costs of any possible legal action. Often times, it isn't about winning or losing....it is more about affording the process of winning.

I would also ask your "agency" if they have errors and omissions insurance coverage on their blanket policy to cover YOU when you act as a cylinder inspector on their behalf. Most important....consult a skill attorney who is experienced in this sort of trial practice in which you will be operating.

Phil Ellis

 

[vyvial]

It is my understanding that the VIP sticker is dive industry only and is not a legal requirement. Basically a way for dive shops to make money. When a tank passes the Hydrostatic test, it also means it passed a Visual Inspection that they also do.

DOT requires a Hydro
Dive shops require a VIP
So where can you be held liable as long as the tank is in good hydro?

 

[PhilEllis]

So where can you be held liable as long as the tank is in good hydro?

In my opinion, I feel that your understanding of potential liability and the actual liability are at odds.

Phil Ellis

 

[vyvial]

In my opinion, I feel that your understanding of potential liability and the actual liability are at odds.

Phil Ellis

You could very well be right but a Vip inspection is still quite a scam. All an inspection does is state that it is good at the time of inspection, once out the door, there is no "warranty" that is good for one year. The owner of the tank might drop it on the way out and that inspection is worthless.

A VIP can help find problems, cracks, rust or even dead roaches which allows you to clean the tank but it doesn't make you liable for the tank for one year.

A tank is required to get hydrostatic and visually tested every five years and done at an DOT approved facility, not a dive shop. So in my opinion, an industry enforced protocol doesn't trump a DOT enforced law in court.

 

[mike_s]

(Being in my line of work I know that people can and will sue for anything and everything) With that being said lets just say that someone’s tank ruptured and injured someone. [snip] What type of insurance could/ should I get to protect me against this type of liability.

that's one of the reasons that I sold a large amount of my "tank collection" last year.

I had WAAAAY to many tanks and often let others at the local quarry (which didn't have a compressor then or rental tanks) borrow them.

Then I considered the liability that I put me and my family under by doing so. Yeah I don't think that my dive buddies would sue me, but never underestimate a spouse who has just lost their life long mate and the soul provider for their family due to some scuba accident, which might not have even been at fault of the tank.

In scuba accidents it seems that people sue everyone. The dive shop, the instructor, the boat or dive site operator, the person who worked on the regulator last, even the company who made the dive gear.

Like you said above, people will sue anybody for anything. Just wasn't worth he liability and risk and like I said, I didn't need that many tanks anyway....

It is my understanding that the VIP sticker is dive industry only and is not a legal requirement. Basically a way for dive shops to make money. When a tank passes the Hydrostatic test, it also means it passed a Visual Inspection that they also do.

DOT requires a Hydro
Dive shops require a VIP
So where can you be held liable as long as the tank is in good hydro?

doesn't have squat to do with legal requirements.

If you inspected the tank and said it was good and laywer could somehow convince a jury that you might not have completed every step of a procedure that you should have, or have no records to prove it, then you've just opened yourself up to liability regardless of legal requirements of hydro/visual.

 

[PhilEllis]

You could very well be right but a Vip inspection is still quite a scam. All an inspection does is state that it is good at the time of inspection, once out the door, there is no "warranty" that is good for one year. The owner of the tank might drop it on the way out and that inspection is worthless.

A VIP can help find problems, cracks, rust or even dead roaches which allows you to clean the tank but it doesn't make you liable for the tank for one year.

A tank is required to get hydrostatic and visually tested every five years and done at an DOT approved facility, not a dive shop. So in my opinion, an industry enforced protocol doesn't trump a DOT enforced law in court.

You are at least solid in your beliefs.

Phil Ellis

 

[vyvial]

You are at least solid in your beliefs.

Phil Ellis

Actually, I'm not solid in my beliefs, I'm really open to have my mind changed but haven't seen the evidence. Please, let me know, because I am more than willing to admit that I am wrong. I just need to know why.

Wouldn't the defense in court be "The hydro test is performed by much more qualified individuals and equipment that is approved by DOT which I am not." Also, how can an individual prove that a tank was not damaged after a VIP? A VIP only says that a tank is safe to fill with air at time of inspection.

 

[Hoosier]

VIP is an industry thing, not a government whatsoever
We know that anyone can sue with any reason in U.S.
A hand shake agreement doesn't cover your axx.

As I consulted with my lawyer, the most critical factor is whether it is for your business or individual base.

In this context, if you are doing it for your agency, you must not collect the money to your pocket. Even though someone wants to sue, it isn't against you, but against your agency.

Just my 2 bar.

 

[ppo2_diver]

Even when doing something for free, you can get sued (and lose). For business purposes, you would need to have some form of general business liability insurance. This covers you in case you get sued due to the service you provide. It can also cover slips, trips, falls, etc. if you have customers at your place of business.

I had a very hard time finding this insurance from places like Nationwide or State Farm. So I went with what was offered through my training agency. My total insurance bill is 30% of what I make a year. So I probably will not be doing services again next year.