Legal considerations for the Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[Scuba Lawyer]

A DM posing as a AOW still has the same responsibilities to render aid when needed no matter what card is shown.

I did not know this. When I received my divemaster certification back in the 80's we were taught (NAUI) there was no duty to rescue anyone unless we were actively acting as a divemaster at the time. I admit I have not divemastered for 30 years.

Granted, I would hope any of us would jump to the rescue of any diver in trouble as long as it was within our physical capabilities to do so; however, I did not know it was now a full time responsibility that came with the certification. When did this change and do all certifying agencies adhere to this?

 

[Wookie]

given the stewart case, the low cost of digital storage now, having the c cards of all verified and stored is just a plain good idea. Just saying

I don't know anyone that does that, or make a copy, or anything else. But, as this is the legal considerations thread, it's a good place to talk about it.

So, Chris, do you make a copy or scan of your ERDI/SNSI recovery diver's OW cards before they start class?

 

[Wookie]

I did not know this. When I received my divemaster certification back in the 80's we were taught (NAUI) there was no duty to rescue anyone unless we were actively acting as a divemaster at the time. I admit I have not divemastered for 30 years.

Granted, I would hope any of us would jump to the rescue of any diver in trouble as long as it was within our physical capabilities to do so; however, I did not know it was now a full time responsibility that came with the certification. When did this change and do all certifying agencies adhere to this?

I do not believe it is true. I am NOT a lawyer, and I would expect it to be challenged in court, but is there ever a requirement to render aid? In any situation? If you are an EMT/Paramedic cruising down the interstate and see a wreck, are you required to stop and render assistance?

I would also expect a DM to render aid to a diver in distress, but it becomes a slippery slope. Is the DM required to help in any situation? What if the diver in distress would cause a danger to the DM? Would a paramedic be expected to enter a burning car to save the baby without proper turnouts?

 

[cerich]

I don't know anyone that does that, or make a copy, or anything else. But, as this is the legal considerations thread, it's a good place to talk about it.

So, Chris, do you make a copy or scan of your ERDI/SNSI recovery diver's OW cards before they start class?

yeah, copies of previous certs to establish the student met pre reqs get put in student folder, same as leadership has had done for years.

There is one case I know of that an instructor was on the ropes in court as he had issued a card for a class he did that the student had not met the pre reqs for (but had done with another instr who hadn't sent in the student registration yet).

I would advise dive charters/quarrys etc to also copy the c card that corresponds to the level of diving the diver is likely to be doing, because there are a few cases where the charter was told they were certified one thing and they weren't and...

 

[ReefHound]

given the stewart case, the low cost of digital storage now, having the c cards of all verified and stored is just a plain good idea. Just saying

I would agree but my opinion carries no weight with respect to our boat policy. Now if I were to own a dive boat... wait... that's not going to ever happen.

 

[Wookie]

I would advise dive charters/quarrys etc to also copy the c card that corresponds to the level of diving the diver is likely to be doing, because there are a few cases where the charter was told they were certified one thing and they weren't and...

I would have been in trouble for that. But not on a recreational charter.....

 

[ReefHound]

I do not believe it is true. I am NOT a lawyer, and I would expect it to be challenged in court, but is there ever a requirement to render aid? In any situation? If you are an EMT/Paramedic cruising down the interstate and see a wreck, are you required to stop and render assistance?

I would also expect a DM to render aid to a diver in distress, but it becomes a slippery slope. Is the DM required to help in any situation? What if the diver in distress would cause a danger to the DM? Would a paramedic be expected to enter a burning car to save the baby without proper turnouts?

First rule of rescue - do not become another victim.

 

[cerich]

I would have been in trouble for that. But not on a recreational charter.....

yeah, I will go a step further, I know of a couple cases in the last while where an instructor taught a class (tech) that they were not actually an instructor for, but the instructor in question was planning to be an instructor for soon enough that felt they could get away with.

If said instructor was teaching that class off your boat and accident it gets sporty fast, starting with you suing that instructor and everyone saying you're a jerk for doing so

 

[NAM001]

Are you talking about dive boats in general or the Spree/Fling? On the Fling, we do not record what card you showed us. Whether or not we should is above my pay grade. There is an information box at end of waiver where you fill out a boatload of info among which is cert agency and level but we do not validate this information. I check waivers for initials, dates, and signatures. I check cards for name match and photo (if present) and nitrox level, if applicable.

in general but like you it is on the form and the customer probably does nto know the info is optional. I until now did not know that.

 

[Scuba Lawyer]

I do not believe it is true. I am NOT a lawyer, and I would expect it to be challenged in court, but is there ever a requirement to render aid? In any situation?

I don't believe it to be true either, but I am always willing to be shown I am incorrect about something. At least here in California I have always been taught there is no duty to rescue absent a special pre-existing relationship between rescuer and rescued. I can see where an active duty divemaster may have a duty to rescue a diver in his charge. Not sure what the current state of the law is. I am pretty comfortable saying that just because I have a divemaster and/or instructor level certification, I don't have a legal duty to rescue anyone I see in trouble by virtue of the fact I have those certifications. Again, if I'm divemastering or teaching, likely different story as to my responsibilities to my charges/students. The exception I am aware of is where you personally place a person in a dangerous situation. Where you would ordinarily owe no duty, you can't put someone in harm's way and then abandon them. My 2psi