Conception trial begins

[Wookie]

As someone who designs and builds ships, but not familiar with US regulations, having read through this thread and looked at a few press articles; I’m just gobsmacked at the low level of regulation for such vessels in an advanced country. Even without regulation, a few cheap smoke detectors from any hardware store would have saved lives.

Smoke detectors have always been required.

It isn’t the lack of regulation, it’s the lack of regulation as it applies to existing vessels.

I won’t get into the whole story, there is plenty in other threads, but Conception was built to the standards that existed when she was built, and never required to upgrade.

A ship built in 1942 (before smoke detectors were invented) needs to meet 1942 requirements. When a ship is substantially altered, the coast guard can consider it a new build and it must be brought in compliance with present day regulations.

If the ship fails to pass a safety inspection one year (for a year), then it must be brought to new standards as of the date it passes the safety inspections.

Boat owners are loath to lose their grandfather status to the point where some owners won’t upgrade any system for fear of having to upgrade all systems.

 

[Wookie]

At the risk of hoof-mouth disease, I don't see a realistic chance of a limitation ultimately prevailing, where the owner had to have known what the COI said, and must have known that his captains (well at least on Conception) were not provided with enough personnel (say one additional deckhand) to handle the late-night roving watch after the cooks went to bed.

It's the owners who keep the boat(s) in compliance with what the COI requires, and they recieve that new COI every two years, and typically frame it and hang it in the wheelhouse. What I don't get (well, maybe I do) is how the Coast Guard (apparently) didn't know of this serious and chronic deficiency. It's not rare at all for the Coast Guard inspectors (I was one for a while long ago) to get, either by whisper during an inspection, or by an anonymous note or phone call, a crew complaint regarding safety. And it's been my experience that the Coast Guard will do everything they can to protect the complainer's anonymity. The ships with union crews can be more out in the open about this and be protected, unlike the nonunion boats and companies, who don't want to risk getting fired. So unfortunately it seems that the smaller the nonunion crew, the slimmer the chance that anyone will make a complaint. Nevertheless the Captain here should have.

And tactically a big reason for a Limitation proceeding, is that it consolidates all claims into one proceeding (the fancy word is "concursus") avoiding say thirty separate suits in many different jurisdictions.

I would say, having run similar boats, that normalization of deviance plays a larger role than “no one complained”.

After all, conception had never burned before. I would be willing to bet that the other 2 boats are run very differently than they were 5 years ago.

 

[berndo]

... or a pile of discarded oily rags from the engine room (which can self-ignite).

That's a thing?

 

[DandyDon]

a pile of discarded oily rags from the engine room (which can self-ignite).

That's a thing?

Yep and not as well known as the risk should be. Disposing of oily rags.

 

[berndo]

Yep and not as well known as the risk should be. Disposing of oily rags.

Huh, who knew.

 

[DandyDon]

Huh, who knew.

I thought that it was a well-known risk, but maybe not. It is among those who work in mechanic shops.

 

[rjack321]

Yep and not as well known as the risk should be. Disposing of oily rags.

Yep, and sometimes occurs on boats too, especially since oil-based paints, varnishes or thinners are so much more common in marine applications than water based finishes.

NTSB Highlights the Fire Hazards of Oily Rags on Vessels

www.ntsb.gov

 

[USdiver1]

Spontaneous combustion is definitely a 'thing'. Besides oil soaked rags, hay, if baled with too high humidity, can spontaneously combust in a barn loft. I've seen it happen once.

Salt-water soaked Lithium-Ion batteries will also spontaneously combust. Remember last year's Hurricane Ian? Many damaged Teslas and other EVs burst into flames while in junk yards a week or two after the storm.

 

[BRT]

Spontaneous combustion is definitely a 'thing'. Besides oil soaked rags, hay, if baled with too high humidity, can spontaneously combust in a barn loft. I've seen it happen once.

I have seen linseed oil rags ignite twice.

 

[The Chairman]

For years I've been hearing about Wookie's boat, and wondering what the deal with it was. Now, I realize more than before how bad it was for divers not to go out with him anymore.

Indeed. I got to go out with him twice and almost got to go a third time. I've never felt unsafe on any of the dozen or so liveaboards I've been on... but I never felt as safe as I was on the Spree. Mel was the best Dive Chief. She scrutinized each and every diver and when she spoke, you effing listened. There were no threats, implied or otherwise, but you had to respect her complete competence. You didn't splash without her OK. Then, @Wookie interviewed you after each dive, looking you square in the eye, to be sure that you were OK. Every person, after every dive. Square in the eye. Charging was not allowed anywhere, but right by the captain's chair. Batteries were babysat, 24/7. AND, this part was stressed, you could not use more than 11 sheets of toilet paper without flushing. You could flush with fewer, but not with more. They had a sample length that had been laminated, as the standard by which to flush by. I schitt you not.