Legal considerations for the Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[flyingron]

It does seem that the NTSB factual reports generally are admissible. The conclusions in a final report are not.

https://www.wilsonelser.com/writabl...les_PDFs/016111508wilson-attorney-article.pdf

Correct, that's what I meant by findings. The docket (where they collect all the information used to make the findings) is full of useful information on major investigations (which I expect this one to be given the large loss of life). Of course, I've been pretty heavily taken by the NTSB's rather cavalier behavior in less than major investigations. It's a good thing that their findings are NOT admissible.

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[Lorenzoid]

You would have all the surviving crew silent "on advice of counsel"

The NTSB doesn’t have the power to subpoena the crew as witnesses?

 

[drbill]

One thing that causes me to wonder about is is that the Conception passed the Coast Guard inspection. Perhaps Coast Guard regulations need to be more stringent. As I've said Truth Aquatics is a great operation which high levels of service and safety.

 

[roman50]

"‘A compliant fire trap’
John McDevitt, a former assistant fire chief from Pennsylvania, an accredited marine surveyor and the chair of a National Fire Protection Assn. committee on commercial and pleasure boat fire protection, questioned why both egress points – the stairwell and the hatch – deposited passengers into the galley and adjacent dining area.

“When you put two exits into the same common area, you are not providing two means of egress – it’s still only one,” he said."

I mentioned this earlier, right after the disaster, and raised question about the 'spirit of the law - providing two means of escape'. Now when we have experts weigh in this would there be any way for victim families to spin it further and make USCG contribute to victim's families compensation?

Logic behind this being that USCG was the body interpreting the law. The fact that they were interpreting this wrong for the past 38 years should not bear a difference legally? Because the flawed interpretation didn't show up until this disaster?

 

[Slate]

providing two means of escape'. Now when we have experts weigh in this would there be any way for victim families to spin it further and make USCG contribute to victim's families compensation?

Given that it appears none of the victims made it to the common areas it's probably irrelevant.

 

[KevinNM]

I mentioned this earlier, right after the disaster, and raised question about the 'spirit of the law - providing two means of escape'. Now when we have experts weigh in this would there be any way for victim families to spin it further and make USCG contribute to victim's families compensation?

Logic behind this being that USCG was the body interpreting the law. The fact that they were interpreting this wrong for the past 38 years should not bear a difference legally? Because the flawed interpretation didn't show up until this disaster?

IANAL The government makes it very hard, but someone recently came up with an approach that allowed them to sue the FBI over their approving a gun sale to a guy with an active felony case. (Which does't mean they will win, it just was not thrown out by immunity.) So it's not impossible that someone could successfully do this, but probably requires some unorthodox thinking and a very good understanding of the government immunity caselaw.

 

[bigDave]

nconfirmed media reports indicate first crewman to notice fire allegedly reports he cooked and cleaned up galley then went up to bed in wheelhouse around 2:30. He wakes up 30 mins later by what he described as loud noise that 'sounded like someone tripping on the deck' below them. It's sometime after 3:00. He smells no smoke, hears no alarms, other crew are still asleep in their bunks in wheelhouse. Same crewmember gets up to investigate the noise, he exits wheel house to find stairs to wheelhouse fully engulfed.

This reads like the whole crew was asleep. I thought there had to be at least one person awake for wheelhouse/anchor watch?

 

[roman50]

Given that it appears none of the victims made it to the common areas it's probably irrelevant.

Makes no sense to me... they didn’t make it there just and only because the common area was engulfed in flames and no mean of escape was available as both lead to the same space.

 

[Bob DBF]

"‘A compliant fire trap’
John McDevitt, a former assistant fire chief from Pennsylvania, an accredited marine surveyor and the chair of a National Fire Protection Assn. committee on commercial and pleasure boat fire protection, questioned why both egress points – the stairwell and the hatch – deposited passengers into the galley and adjacent dining area.

“When you put two exits into the same common area, you are not providing two means of egress – it’s still only one,” he said."

I am supprised such an expert did not have the old regulations changed instead of dogpileing after the fact, but he was getting paid for inspecting vessels and telling the prospective buyer that it was compliant, as well as determing the value of the vessel.

If one wants to point a finger, it is all the proffessionals in the marine industry that know there are safety issues, but do not get the regulations changed. Unfortunately, the marine industry, as well as others, have to see a body count before there is change.

That's assuming a cause is found and any changes made in the future will actually prevent a reoccurrence.



Bob

 

[Slate]

Makes no sense to me... they didn’t make it there just and only because the common area was engulfed in flames and no mean of escape was available as both lead to the same space.

My post makes no sense (about none of the divers being found in the common areas?). The way I figure it, if the victims were awake and aware and surrounded by fire with no other way out, at least some of them would have forced their way through the flames in the salon to get out that large opening rather than just sitting there in the bunk area and giving up.

A few seconds in fire is infinitely better than doing nothing.