Legal considerations for the Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[Russjstewart]

To be fair, once the claim was tendered to the carrier the carrier hired defense counsel and will be making all of the essential decisions. Truth will have a cooperation clause requiring it to cooperate with the defense. So it isn’t a case where the owner has made this decision. It’s the insurance carrier trying to limit massive payouts.

Not saying right, wrong or otherwise and yes the suit is filed in Truth’s name. Just the realities of insurance defense

When you take into account the post from @ScubaLawyer in the A&I post less than 6 hours after the mayday was sent ( if I have the time zones right) where he said “Very sad day indeed. I have already received calls from distraught family members. My investigator is heading up there today”. It sounds like people on both sides are not waiting for the dust to settle be thinking about litigation



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[Lilespig]

The law says 'two means of escape'. If both means of escape lead to the same compartment which safety may be compromised (flood, fire) then the spirit of the law is not being fulfilled because there is no escape.

See the definition of 'Means of escape' below.

I sense a lawsuit against the Truth for operating this dangerously designed boat and against to authority who certified this boat against the spirit of the law. The Truth may be an excellent operator, but they operate boats with an idiotic safety design.

46 CFR §177.500
§ 177.500 Means of escape.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, each space accessible to passengers or used by the crew on a regular basis, must have at least two means of escape, one of which must not be a watertight door.

(b) The two required means of escape must be widely separated and, if possible, at opposite ends or sides of the space to minimize the possibility of one incident blocking both escapes.

Means of escape
Means of escape means a continuous and unobstructed way of exit travel from any point in a vessel to an embarkation station. A means of escape can be both vertical and horizontal, and include doorways, passageways, stairtowers, stairways, and public spaces. Cargo spaces, machinery spaces, rest rooms, hazardous areas determined by the cognizant Officer in Charge Marine Inspection, escalators, and elevators must not be any part of the means of escape.

What tonnage does this apply to? Escalators an elevators?

Even before the fire, I would never have gone on a boat with this lay out no matter how good the reviews were just from the pictures of the tight quarters below waterline, with just one exit. The bunk room boats literally make me claustrophobic just looking at the pictures, and I don't gets scared of tight spaces. It's hard to believe this is the norm out in California, but I guess for 3 day trips it makes sense.

 

[Lilespig]

The only wheelhouse access I am aware of is a ladder from the dive deck. There may be another.

Of course here I’ve begun to think of this as a 3 story structure fire with the middle story reportedly engulfed. It was enough apparently to prevent those in the bunks from coming up. If so it was basically burning the wood and plastic at the feet of the crew in the wheelhouse and preventing them from going down

Looks like it's the only crew exit was from wheel house.

Unconfirmed media reports indicate first crewman to notice fire allegedly reports he cooked and cleaned up galley then went up to bed in wheelhouse around 2:30. He wakes up 30 mins later by what he described as loud noise that 'sounded like someone tripping on the deck' below them. It's sometime after 3:00. He smells no smoke, hears no alarms, other crew are still asleep in their bunks in wheelhouse. Same crewmember gets up to investigate the noise, he exits wheel house to find stairs to wheelhouse fully engulfed. Those stairs are outside of the 4 walls of salon/galley. He somehow gets down to main deck and reports trying to gain entry to salon via front windows that won't open. All the doors are blocked by fire and are still shut, but through the glass doors he observes ceiling tiles on fire and falling to the floor, which would indicate that the fire is in an advanced state. To stay burning and growing it needed O2. I'm guessing/hoping it probably chewed up all of the air in the galley then stole all the O2 from the berthing area via open stairs, asphyxiating divers in their sleep.

What draws my attention is that ladder, and the "thump noise". If the fire were that advanced that it had spread to outside the four walls of the galley to ignite and block the stairs from the berthing area, how is it that the crew member that heard the noise reports smelling no smoke, and not even seeing fire until he got to the stairs and tried to go down them? The floor under their wheelhouse should have been closer to the point of origin and burning through before exterior stairs. It doesn't make sense for an accidental fire that started in the galley area of the boat.

 

[KevinNM]

The doors to the salon are, per diver reports, not closed while the boat has guests. It's only closed when the boat is at the dock and locked up. The ladder is a steep staircase like thing that runs over the doorway.

You can see it in the middle picture here: Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

The fire probably had lots of oxygen, so it likely grew vastly faster then a typical house fire.

 

[Lilespig]

The doors to the salon are, per diver reports, not closed while the boat has guests. It's only closed when the boat is at the dock and locked up. The ladder is a steep staircase like thing that runs over the doorway.

You can see it in the middle picture here: Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

The fire probably had lots of oxygen, so it likely grew vastly faster then a typical house fire.

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying. I thought an early report said the doors were closed but they could see through them, hence the confusion.

 

[Lilespig]

Does DAN insurance pay out if each of the divers had it?

 

[Slate]

Does DAN insurance pay out if each of the divers had it?

Interesting question, I looked it up. DAN will pay for the loss of scuba equipment if it's due to water or flood damage. So it would have had to have gotten flooded from the boat sinking, before it got burned. I guess they have ways of determining if that's actually what happened.

 

[cerich]

Does DAN insurance pay out if each of the divers had it?

they didn't when wave dancer went down. read current exclusions

 

[EricTheDood]

Does DAN insurance pay out if each of the divers had it?

Negative, DAN insurance covers the dive(s) only, not the boat ride.

COVERED DIVE or COVERED DIVING ACTIVITY means a recreational dive or diving while a scuba instructor, divemaster, underwater photographer, or while performing research under the auspices and following the diving safety guidelines of the American Academy of Underwater Scientists (AAUS), Canadian Academy of Underwater Scientists (CAUS) or a group whose written diving research protocol meets or exceeds those of the AAUS or CAUS. A dive begins upon entry into the water and ends upon exit from the water. A Covered Dive must begin while insurance is in force.

COVERED DIVING ACCIDENT means an Accident, DCI, or any Injury that results from a Covered Dive, regardless of the depth.

https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/scuba-dive-insurance/files/handbook-g.pdf

 

[Wookie]

Thousands, surely not. Maybe not even any, as I'm sure California is adequately supplied with personal injury attorneys.

Please, keep in mind, this is not Drifting Dan. There are real damages to real people.

You may not like the ads, but the families need legal representation now - the legal process is underway with the court filing that took place Thursday and the families need help.

Even the Wave Dancer paid out something. Not nearly the total of court determined damages, but the insurance paid whatever coverage they had and it was divvied up to be weighted towards the neediest.

It was unimaginable that 20 souls would perish on a tied up dive boat, and equally unimaginable that 34 souls would perish in a devastating fire on a USCG certified passenger vessel.

And BTW you may also expect a big jump in insurance premiums on dive boat operations. I'm sure Wookie and his fellow captains already know that.

I expect that since we are all under the same syndicate, out of Lloyd’s, that all SPVs with overnight passengers will be effected, regardless of mission.