LDS vs online?

[scubadobadoo]

And I agree with everything you said. I think if I was to open an LDS these days, I'd have a very simple plan. Nothing but air and lessons. If my business model relied on the profitfrom sales, I'd be too eager to jack the price up. If you don't have inventory (which costs a lot) then you order in everything. Then the customer might as well order online and at least get savings.

The question put another way then. Given that a bricks and mortar store costs more to keep open than an internet based one, what would you all suggest the LDS do? I would think that selling online as well would be a first step.

As far as where to get air... I was lucky for a few years in that I got fills from a firefighter friend but I don't know of other sources.

Let me also make it clear that I am for the LDS even if I don't personally frequent one a lot. My wife and I have made about 30% of our purchases at LDS's and I have met a few people at those shops that I would travel with outside of a LDS sponsored trip. I want all of them to survive as that is a good thing for all of us clearly.

To answer your question, yes, I think now having an active online store is key to making money in this current economy. Sure, some LDS's can do it only in person but those are far and few and mostly the ones in active dive destinations or with the perfect business model for their specific area. That's easy to say but coming up with that biz model is the tough part. I just don't have all of the answers or I would be doing it myself. I do know that just having good customer service doesn't cut it anymore. People want more, especially now. Have you seen my 401k lately?:depressed:

In the end, we are involved in a "sport" that is expensive and not really a priority in the average life. Put those two together and I predict more LDS's will be closing their doors unfortunately.

"It's the economy stupid."

 

[jbrians]

My favourite expression I learned from my Dad.
"Son, there's a lot of money in farming. I know because I put it there"


So I wonder if there isn't demand for a couple of small centres where you can buy an air fill and maybe a few very simple emergency supplies..."O" rings and such. A few grand for a small compressor and an air bank and supply air to the locals. Waivers required of course.
An arrangement with several of the suppliers of equipment for an internet store in addition to the air station and it just might work. The challenge is you wouldn't get tire kickers. (OH darn) They like to see lots of "stuff". Mind you, they also don't buy much so maybe weeding them out at the beginning would be a good idea.
In Guelph, to the best of my knowledge, the Firehall won't dispense air anymore so we are left with a drive of at least 30 minutes to the closest LDS and that's not on the way to most of the water around here.

 

[Go Go Gadget]

Have you seen my 401k lately?:depressed:

Yes, I saw your 401K. It was in the same handbasket as mine. I didn't ask where they were going, but they were in a big hurry to get there.

Seriously, the LDS vs. online question is one I have considered quite a bit since I begain diving this year. I sympathize with the LDS who is trying to make a buck. However, I have to look after my budget also. I talked to my LDS about this before I signed up for my ow training and he was very honest with me. He said I would have a difficult time getting service for anything I purchased on the internet. I have found this to be true. I bought a combination mask/computer from an internet shop and I found a small manufacturing defect in it after a few dives. None of the local shops will touch it. I finally had to get an RMA and send it back to the manufacturer and pay for shipping to get it there (the internet based shop would have taken care of it also, but since I had to ship it anyway, I decided to send it to the manufacturer). So, I will not be able to use it this weekend. Had I bought the equipment from a LDS, I would have paid $500 more, but the simple problem would have been fixed locally and I would have it this weekend.

In the end, I guess where you buy equipment depends on your personality and what you are willing to pay for service.

 

[Rhone Man]

In the UK, before PADI conquered the world, diving was basically done in clubs and there were no LDSs. Instructors had other "proper" jobs, and just taught on evenings and weekends, often for no charge. Club members chipped in together for compressors and heavy equipment (tanks and weights). Maybe that is the model the diving world will eventually move back to.

Weasely lawyer statement: I am told that this is what the British diving world was like, but I have never done any UK diving (OK, only once, and that was a huge mistake), so I don't actually know. I am just repeating what old people tell me.

 

[coney]

Seriously, the LDS vs. online question is one I have considered quite a bit since I begain diving this year. I sympathize with the LDS who is trying to make a buck. However, I have to look after my budget also. I talked to my LDS about this before I signed up for my ow training and he was very honest with me. He said I would have a difficult time getting service for anything I purchased on the internet. I have found this to be true. I bought a combination mask/computer from an internet shop and I found a small manufacturing defect in it after a few dives. None of the local shops will touch it. I finally had to get an RMA and send it back to the manufacturer and pay for shipping to get it there (the internet based shop would have taken care of it also, but since I had to ship it anyway, I decided to send it to the manufacturer). So, I will not be able to use it this weekend. Had I bought the equipment from a LDS, I would have paid $500 more, but the simple problem would have been fixed locally and I would have it this weekend.

GO GO,
You seriously need a new LDS. My local shop is more than happy to service any ewquiptment no matter where I bought. Not that I would ever tell him that I bought something online, afterall, why couldn't my brother buy me a gift from his LDS.He is happy enough to make mnoney for the service that he does, and wahtever small ticket items that i do buy from him

 

[dashark]

Thanks for posting this again. i have been wrestling with a bit of LDS guilt the last couple of weeks. I have been looking for a new suit and having trouble justifying the mark up of my LDS. it is $150 more, not including tax.
That being said, I had to go into the shop to try one on. The LDS's must get real tired of folks coming in to get "sized" and walking out to their laptop. the only way they can compete is to open an online store themselves.
Yes, i will go in and see if they can come close on price. 15% more to support an LDS? that seems reasonable to me. I don't see it happening in most cases.
I really want to support my LDS. But, can I afford it these days?

 

[In10se]

Captain obvious says to do both. Some stuff the LDS just cannot touch because they don't even carry the line. Other things there is no price incentive so it's still an online only purchase. Things that need serviced are best bought at the LDS, but I've bought some used scubapro and apex regs from sb members with no issues.

Establish a relationship with an LDS, and then give them a shot at what you need. Leisurepro won't give you free air, custom measure your dry-suit, or help you glue on the pockets and install the p-valve. Give the locals a shot, and then if the guy you know by first name that goes out of his/her way to hook you up still cannot get the deal you want there should be no harm/no foul.

Bottom line is do what your personality compels you to do and ignore what everyone else says. Lol ... you will any way. Just like all these posts on the LDS vs online wars have not changed anything. I seriously doubt that anyone has had an epiphany and suddenly altered spending habits because of an internet post.

"OMG ... like ... the little black fonts on my screen are telling me what to do!!! :shocked2: I should have known that!!! I have to rush over to my LDS and buy something!!!!".

 

[RAWalker]

My LDS guilt ends at going in and saying I've been looking at the _______ online, what can you do for me? I'm pleased to report that all my high dollar items have been bought from local dives shops. They didn't just price match but made me offers substantially lower than the online sale prices I had found. I still purchase items online also and do so without any guilt or reservations. Each of the online resellers I purchase from also have brick and mortar shops also the only differences are they are not local and stock items my LDS don't.

 

[sstriano]

Not only did i want to support my LDS, but the package that he gave me was BETTER then the price of the stuff from leisurepro.com.

In fact i turned a few guys onto the shop on the board here, and the placed orders with them from across the country.

I don't know if i am allowed to but if you need a good deal on SCUBAPRO, Oceanic, DUI, Zeagle, Ocean Reef, try Hydrosports Dive and Travel, Mark is a great guy!

But for the OP, i would say support your LDS as much as possible, only IF the LDS is willing to support you as well. A lot of the LDS are out to just make a buck, and in that case i say screw em, scubatoys.com and leisurepro.com will provide a heck of a deal.

Opps... Starting to ramble... Sorry!!

Regards,
Sam

 

[Divers Incorporated]

As a owner of a Dive Center in Ann Arbor, Michigan which has an online shop... I can tell you that if you saw my compressor, electricity, filter and oil bill you would know without a doubt that we cannot survive on air fills... After we pay the insurance and pool fees we cant make all that much on Lessons either....

So piping in, give your Local Dive Center a chance... tell them what you are looking for, ask their opinions and, most importantly, if you are going to buy it somewhere else, online or otherwise, give them a chance to do good by you... if they don't or can't ,they cannot hold it against you.

With the economic climate the way it is I am sure that we are going to lose a lot of LDS in the next two years... we have lost 4 in the past year in my area... there are people who drive over an hour to get air fills at our quarry because their local dive center is gone. Look at where you get your airfills and think of what you would do if that shop was no longer there... and give them a chance to do what you want them to do.

My 2 cents... Thank you for your support.

Rich