LDS fails to deliver OW portion of PADI rescue, says tough luck

[seriousdiver]

they lost a potential regular customer who expects to be treated in an honest and straightforward manner, with products and services clearly labeled with what is and is not included and all associated costs clearly stated up front, and with staff that works hard to deliver services in a timely manner. That is what I consider good business practice, alas an increasingly difficult thing to find in this Walmart age.

Apparently you feel you're entitled to dictate what their scheduled availability is.

There are two sides to every coin, the dive should engage in good business practices, that doesn't mean they deserve to be walked over by every customer that feels entitled to one on one attention and scheduling.

My LDS does ONE weekend of certification a month, if I can't make it then I have to schedule with another shop, I don't then demand that they do a separate weekend just for me.

Not all of the services were rendered and a reasonable effort was put forth by the student.

Actually, all services he paid for WERE rendered, he could not make the days that they dive, how was a reasonable effort put forward by the student? They plainly stated the dates available months in advance, he could not make those dates, ergo they must cater to him?

Entitlement is why the US in particular is going downhill, unrealistic expectations and demands of service by "mid-range" customers that want service on their schedule and then claim they weren't given the service they "expected".

If a dive shop offers dates that aren't convenient for you, find another dive shop or instructor, don't sit there and lie about how they didn't bend over backwards for you because you're an entitled snowflake.

I told my LDS straight up I couldn't afford their gear, bought some items from them, and I still get along with them great even though I didn't buy my gear OR certification from them; because I showed some damn respect to the LDS and was honest with them and myself.

By the OP's expectations I should have demanded the LDS change their prices and dive schedule to fit myself.

I'm a small business owner AND a customer, I know the realities of entitled customers and stores that offer bad service all too well, just because a store can't cater dates to meet a client's schedule doesn't mean they give bad service.

You can't please them all, you can bend over backwards and still have unsatisfied customers, and you can work your tail off and still end up with negative reviews. I've seen customers badmouth me after shaking my hand and walking out with a smile, just in the hopes of getting free stuff. I've seen stores give terrible service and nobody says anything, but this isn't a case of terrible service or disrespect, this is a case of the OP wanting the dive shop to change the dates on which they offer certification to meet HIS schedule.

I don't feel the Dive shop lost a customer because he comes off as the type of person that is impossible to please regardless of what the dive shop does to make him happy.

 

[jar546]

There should have been solidified dates from the beginning by the shop. You can either make the scheduled dates or you cannot vs. trying to see what works after the ball is already in motion.

If i say September 18th is the OW checkout dive and September 25 is the rain date and you know this BEFORE you sign up then it is your problem if you can't make those dates.

If I don't have set dates for OW then it is up in the air and this is the result with a "he said, she said" situation.

 

[seriousdiver]

If I don't have set dates for OW then it is up in the air and this is the result with a "he said, she said" situation.

I should add that I just checked out Planet Scuba and they have a very clearly marked calendar of dates they do their dives months in advance.

It's no where near a he said she said situation because the OP has shown he wants it HIS way and on his time, regardless of the actual schedule that is available.

 

[jar546]

If he stated that he was not available for those dates and they allowed him to sign up then they bought the responsibility. Giving 6 full weekends in a 2 month period is more than adequate.

 

[redacted]

If he stated that he was not available for those dates and they allowed him to sign up then they bought the responsibility. Giving 6 full weekends in a 2 month period is more than adequate.

OTOH, if he signed up knowing what the3 shop schedule was then he bought the risk. An ugly situation for both parties.

 

[seriousdiver]

If he stated that he was not available for those dates and they allowed him to sign up then they bought the responsibility. Giving 6 full weekends in a 2 month period is more than adequate.

Why? It's not like he paid for the dives.

If they allowed him to pay for the dives and sign up knowing that he couldn't make the dives then they bought the responsibility.

He signed up for a class KNOWING that the dates didn't fit his schedule, he assumed responsibility for finding someone to do the open water portion of the class.

Which is more realistic, the dive shops knowing what the student's schedule is like or the student knowing what the dive shop's schedule is like?

I did my pool work and classwork with my LDS, I knew I couldn't make their certification weekend, does that mean they were obligated to set up a dive just for me since I couldn't make the next two months worth of scheduling they had done?

I'm sorry, but I knew full well that my schedule wouldn't mesh well with my LDS, that doesn't put them on the hook for doing the checkout dives on MY schedule.

The OP started this thread with the intention of essentially badmouthing the dive shop because they wouldn't change their schedule to meet his demands, notice how he claims they don't post their schedule, yet on their website the calendar feature is extremely obvious and is one of the main components of their site.

 

[jar546]

Shop: Planet Scuba, Tucson AZ
Facts (reported as accurately as an individual's perspective allows):

I enrolled and paid for PADI rescue from Planet Scuba in June of this year (one other student was enrolled). As is usual, there was a disclaimer on their web site course description that the course fees did not include additional fees associated with the open water portion, like trip, boat, or site fees. I took the classroom sessions on June 18 & 20 and the pool session on June 23rd, then waited for the OW sessions to be scheduled. After a couple of weeks of hearing nothing I wrote to the instructor asking what was up with scheduling and provided my open weekends for the next two months (I was available approximately every other weekend). The other student provided his availability. The instructor responded that he was coordinating with the shop but that he couldn't schedule on his own, the shop had to approve of the schedule. This process was repeated at least twice, with no one contacting me; I had to take the initiative and contact the instructor, who said he was waiting on the shop. After eight weeks of no action I sent a firmly worded, but polite and respectful, request for action to the shop, stating that this was an unreasonable delay between the classroom and pool sessions and the OW sessions. About a week after that I received an e-mail from the shop (copied below with student and instructor's names redacted):

.........................................................................................

Please read the OP again. There were no OW dive dates scheduled, hence the problem

 

[seriousdiver]

Please read the OP again. There were no OW dive dates scheduled, hence the problem

Except there were/ and are dive dates scheduled.

We have 2 future PADI rescue diver weekend trips scheduled-one in October and one in November. This diver is free to join either one of those trips, but we have had those scheduled for a while, and he sent us 4 other weekends that were good for him, which we cannot provide an instructor for.

If alls we're given are the OP's words and the dive shops words, I'm inclined to actually look at the schedule, which does confirm the dive shop's words.

You can take the OP's statements for what they're worth, in my experience, he's not going to admit when he's wrong because it would require a lot of backpedaling.

The thing is, he didn't pay for OW dives, therefore no contract was broken, he wasn't guaranteed a date, he paid for the classes without having anything in regards to the open water dives penned in writing; and then he flocks to the boards to gather sympathy by claiming they failed to deliver.

Saying he offered 4 weekends isn't reasonable given that they weren't consecutive weekends and I'm highly doubtful any dive shop would have been able to accommodate.

Every single dive shop I looked at offered their certifications on the last weekend of the month, every single dive shop I looked at had their schedule posted for MONTHS in advance just like the OP's dive shop.

It seems unreasonable to me to then say he gave them four weekends that they weren't doing dive certifications and then says THEY failed to deliver, they didn't fail to deliver because they couldn't deliver when HE wanted them to deliver.

 

[Laurie S.]

I just saw elsewhere that Planet Scuba also certifies through SSI. I didn't think it was allowed for one shop to do both PADI and SSI? I know a shop in San Carlos got in big trouble for attempting that.

 

[USFpsychDiver]

OK, well, I said I was done, but there's still this impression that if I couldn't get the OW dives on one specific date and time and the heck with the shop's schedule I'd throw a hissy fit, and the mistaken impression that on any date that the shop had a trip scheduled there was an instructor available for the rescue checkouts; in fact, there wasn't an instructor available on ANY of those trips, at least not that I was informed of. I could post the literally dozens of e-mails between myself, the other student, and the instructor demonstrating this, but why waste the bandwidth. I'll quote a couple of them here to give a flavor of the exchanges (these are all from the instructor):

in response to a bunch of dates that the other student and I both had available:

"There are things I need to work out with Planet Scuba. They have objections to me setting up trips that they haven't "approved" or charged for."

in response to a date that both the other student and I had available and the shop has a trip scheduled:

"Unfortunately I will be teaching an advanced open water class in San Carlos that weekend, already committed."

In response to another date that the other student and myself both had available and the shop had a trip:

"If you've checked out the Planet Scuba Web page you'll see that I am no longer listed as staff. I forwarded your emails to Chris and Danya so they are aware of the your concerns."

These are by no means all of the efforts, but give a flavor of the difficulties we've had. My contention is that the shop, having sold me a Rescue course, has a responsibility to deliver a rescue course. The fact that I have not paid for all incidental fees associated with some part of the course does not absolve them of that responsibility. If they had said "we have dates available" and give some reasonable number of dates, even one a month, for the next few months, and I had said "no, I can't make it" or "no, I'm not willing to pay the incidental fees", that would have absolved their responsibility, but they didn't offer, I asked and asked, and I never refused to make any payments for the sessions not offered.

A couple of other comments: I was in San Carlos diving on the weekend of 7/21-22 and there were students there doing rescue, but they weren't from Planet Scuba and the instructor wasn't available. Had I any suggestion at that point that a referral was the only way I could get the OW sessions I would have gone for it, but that was only 4 weeks after the classroom/pool sessions and I assumed that the instructor and the shop were working out the scheduling details.

The number of dives required for cave training varies by agency; I've seen as few as 25, and I think as many as 100. I'm NAUI Cave I certified and that requires 75 dives (all also require AOW and probably Nitrox since almost no one dives caves on air). And I do have more than 100 logged dives, just haven't updated my status yet. Guess I should go do that.

The shop is primarily an SSI shop. They said they were starting to offer PADI because students requested it. I did not specifically request either SSI or PADI, they sold me PADI because that was the next available course.

I will probably refer out for the OW training eventually (and thank you to the poster who provided a referral -- I'll hold out a bit longer in case the original instructor surfaces -- I haven't heard anything from him for a couple of weeks; I imagine he has limited motivation to move forward, and may also have a bad taste left from the experience).