LDS fails to deliver OW portion of PADI rescue, says tough luck

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Fact: I have never been offered an OW checkout opportunity by either the shop or the instructor.

Please expand on this fact. Did the shop not have a web site when you signed up for your class? Did the shop not have any rescue OW dives scheduled on that web site at that time? Do you not consider the OW rescue dive currently scheduled in the next couple months as an opportunity for you to complete your certification?
 
I just looked at the shop calendar and noticed that they do not have any PADI rescue classes scheduled within the months of July, August, September or October. There are, however, multiple SSI Stress & Rescue courses scheduled. I see this as an issue with the shop maintaining PADI instructors to do the class.
 
Fact: The shop says I should arrange OW dives with the instructor.
Fact: The shop says they have met their obligation to me.

Speculation: The shop chose to use instruction staff for the more numerous and thus more lucrative open water students rather than the rescue students on the dates they had trips scheduled.
Speculation: The shop had a falling out with their PADI rescue instructor over payment and doesn't have anyone to do our checkout dives any more since they are primarily a SSI shop.

Before everybody gets their shorts all twisted over "agency bashing" this isn't it. I'm simply noting a difference between the two.

USFpsychDiver: You would have had better luck with the SSI class, simply because SSI holds the shop responsible for customer satisfaction.

A PADI instructor is independent of the shop, and the shop has little control over the instructor, while an SSI instructor can not work without being affiliated with a shop, and when there's a problem, SSI expects the shop owner to resolve it, giving the shop a great deal of control.

flots.
 
Fact: I have never been offered an OW checkout opportunity by either the shop or the instructor.
Fact: I have made multiple requests for checkout dives and have provided at least 10 possible weekends over four months.

Fact: The dive shop stated in this thread that they offered you dates that there are OW checkout opportunities.

Ergo one of you two is lying.

Fact: Their website states the dates they do checkout dives, ergo I'm inclined to side with them when it comes to whether an opportunity was offered.

Just because you offer 10 possible weekends over four months does NOT mean they can work with that schedule if their checkout dives are at the end of each month and your demands are for one of 10 weekends that don't fall on the end of the month. Why did you pay for a class not knowing WHEN they did checkout dives if you knew they would be required?


Fact: I paid the shop $260.
Fact: This fee did not include open water dive costs, but did include tuition and materials.
Which you received. Your thread title says the LDS failed to deliver the OW portion of PADI Rescue. You never paid for the OW portion of Padi Rescue, ergo the LDS did NOT fail to deliver anything.

Fact: The instructor no longer works with the shop.
Fact: The shop says I should arrange OW dives with the instructor.
Fact: The shop says they have met their obligation to me.
If you want to finish with the instructor and the instructor is no longer working for the dive shop, then yes you should arrange dives with the instructor.

The shop HAS met their obligations to you UNLESS they refuse to give you a referral form.

Speculation: The shop chose to use instruction staff for the more numerous and thus more lucrative open water students rather than the rescue students on the dates they had trips scheduled.

Do you have proof they're doing checkout dives on the trips they have scheduled? To me it sounds like they offer one time a month where they certify rescue students, they aren't required to offer checkout dives on ALL of their trips.


Speculation: The shop feels the economic pinch and wants to hang on to the $260 in hand rather than any possible future income from a satisfied customer.

Sometimes it's not worth it to "satisfy" a customer that might not be satisfied no matter what, you want a refund for services already rendered. According to the dive shop's post they DID offer you dates they do certification, you want them to refund you or set up a dive to meet YOUR schedule.

Speculation: You probably should have gotten the dates they do rescue OW checkouts before paying for the class, or arranged to get the referral form and OW checkouts done with another instructor/dive shop before paying for the class.

Opinion: The open water dives are part of the course; the fact that I hadn't paid for them yet didn't mean they weren't part of the course; I hadn't been given a date to pay for.

But they aren't part of the course, just like when you go to get your drivers license you might do drivers ed long before you do the driving classes, they aren't required to hand you a license just because you pass drivers ed.

Opinion: I should not have to be responsible for finding my own instructor for the OW portion should the original instructor be unavailable.

That's your opinion, I had to find an instructor when I couldn't make the dive shop's classes.
Opinion: A professionally run operation would have offered a sincere apology for their failure to be able to deliver a complete course and offered a full refund in cash or in store credit applied to an alternative course (i.e. SSI stress and rescue).

They did complete what you paid for, a refund would be in order if they had been contracted for the entire course and they failed to deliver.

I'm sorry, but if the dive shop is anything like the "professionally run" dive shops I've been to, the OW checkouts are clearly stated to be separate from the classroom/poolwork portion.

But really, you have very little room to call out their lack of professionalism when you run to forums to complain that they broke contract and labeling them outright. The thing about airing your dirty laundry is that you need to make sure you are actually in the right, not just that you think you're in the right. It's libelous to say they did not deliver on what you paid for when they DID deliver on what you paid for.
It also doesn't sound like they said tough luck, unless you have emails that show they didn't offer any sort of apology and took your plight indifferently the dive shop has posted their stance on this thread and it sounds far from them washing their hands of you without having tried.
 
Fact: I paid the shop $260.
Fact: This fee did not include open water dive costs, but did include tuition and materials.

Which you received. Your thread title says the LDS failed to deliver the OW portion of PADI Rescue. You never paid for the OW portion of Padi Rescue, ergo the LDS did NOT fail to deliver anything.

You are really hung up on the idea that there cannot be a contractual obligation to do something unless one pays all of the stated costs in advance, aren't you? You are plainly mistaken.

---------- Post Merged at 04:27 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:15 PM ----------

I'm sorry, but if the dive shop is anything like the "professionally run" dive shops I've been to, the OW checkouts are clearly stated to be separate from the classroom/poolwork portion.

When I took the Rescue course a few years ago, I paid one amount to the dive shop. I had no idea what the relationship may have been among me, the shop, the instructor or the boat, but it was clearly understood that the dive shop was to give me a complete Rescue course. They gave me the classroom portion, and then we went out on a boat for the open water dives. Just a couple of weeks ago, my wife took Rescue from a different shop in a different part of the country, and she experienced the same thing. One price, one service. That said, it appears things are done differently in Arizona, where shops don't have boats tied up out back. But your statement implies that it's common practice for classroom work to be "separate" from OW checkouts. I have not seen that to be the case.

And by the way, as I mentioned earlier, the ambiguity here lies in what is "separate"--the service (instruction) itself or the cost charged for OW dives? Just saying that "OW checkout dives are separate from classroom work" is not enough to inform a prospective student that the shop considers the agreement to provide classroom work and the agreement to provide OW checkout dives as separate agreements that have to be made separately. "Separate" could just as well mean "separate COST" (that is, ADDITIONAL cost), and that is how I would interpret it if I were the prospective student.
 
I just looked at the shop calendar and noticed that they do not have any PADI rescue classes scheduled within the months of July, August, September or October. There are, however, multiple SSI Stress & Rescue courses scheduled. I see this as an issue with the shop maintaining PADI instructors to do the class.

From the shop website:

Lake Pleasant Trip PADI RESCUE DIVES
Saturday, October 20, 2012 - Sunday, October 21, 2012
Price - US $240.00
4 openings
PREREQUISITES: must have completed the PADI RESCUE DIVER COURSE, both classroom and pool sessions.
Must be current in CPR, FIRST AID, and Oxygen Provider certifications
trip includes: 4 rescue checkout dives, tanks, weights, and instructor fees.
Trip does not include overnight lodging or transportation.


 
So I missed one at the end of October. Sorry

What about the other 3-1/2 months before that?

I don't have time to look but at the end of the day why would someone sign up for a class when there are no checkout dives offered without having a backup instructor?


If there were no checkout dives offered then the dive shop is lying to us from their responses.

If there were checkout dives offered and they didn't get cancelled then the OP is lying to us.

I'm really curious which party is lying about whether or not checkout dives were offered/scheduled/cancelled.
 
sd, you will just have to take your opinion to the grave if it is that important to you. I'm out.

I see it now. You are totally correct!
 
Another thread that is stuck in an endless loop with no end in sight.

Let's just blame PADI and move on.:D
 
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