Lake Pleasant Conditions II

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I was out Diving with the Ed's this weekend. Saw what happened to Kris and Mindy. This is the email in which you can send your safety concerns to: lakepleasant@mail.maricopa.gov

My email was three pages long. Here are a few excerpts:

I think the following actions need to be undertaken as soon as possible:

1. A dedicated area for divers needs to established and roped off from Jet Skis and Boats.,
2. A brochure needs to be developed and handed to boaters and jetskis educating them about dive flag and dive below markers. You could add 1 dollar to the boat fees to pay for this.
3. The lake patrol needs to start patroling known dive areas and ticketing people for endangering divers.

These are EASY fixes to help protects the lives of hundreds of divers who frequent the lakes every week, It would be negilgent to ignore this growing safety issue.

If you agree with these, email the address above with your solution.

Maybe if enough people bring this concern to their attention, someone will actually listen.


jcf


Please don’t take this personally, but I cannot agree with this approach to enhance diver safety, other than enforcement of current laws.

I have been to Pleasant 300 - 400 times of the last 25 years as a user for several different forms of recreation. I have publicly lobbied and attended multiple county meetings to protect certain user rights over the years and have come to understand that you are in the wrong user group if you want to see any positive changes take place.

First of all, you need to remember that the lake was primarily built and funded for irrigation purposes. Recreation is only a secondary benefit but not a right. If this were the case they would use their colorado river allocation water to maintain maximum levels rather than sell those rights. As an example there are people who slip large boats at well over $500.00 per month that effectively end up in a mud puddle in September during some drier years. It they can’t/won’t do anything about keeping these folks happy (ie, actually providing a lake you can boat in), you and your $5.00 (or $6.00 on the MWD side) entry fee means nothing to them.

If any user group has more protective or influential status than it is the fisherman. They have organized lobbies, both nationally and locally, and frankly more people fish-including the park rangers (of which many still fuction in a "Good ole’ boy"network).

As far as a designated area for exclusive scuba use. This IMO is the last thing we need. Because if we get it I will guarantee it will be the only place you will be allowed to dive. All other areas will become off limits. That also puts the burden of the site selection on the park rangers which they will likely select the least desirable area for access and conditions. Also, if fisherman think there might be fish in a designated "scuba" area they will fight for access. Personally, I want the freedom to select my own dive site and will take my chances.

Second of all the idea of thinking that the lake would raise their entry fees by 20% to provide signage to educate users regarding boating laws relating to diving is naive. There is probably 500 - 1,000 non-scuba lake users for every one of us. They each have their own special interest. If we all agreed to fund a dollar for education of all aspects of lake usage, including safety, it is going to cost us $50.00 every time we enter.

Your last point about enforcement is the only realistic answer. But in defense of the law enforcement officers, they have their hands full each weekend just trying to keep people alive. They don’t have the time to deal with potential safety issues as the ones on the surface of the water each weekend are real. Honestly, although I waterski/wakeboard weekly, I never take my boat out on the weekend-because I have a legitimate safety concern. I do scuba dive Pleasant on the weekend, however, because I consider myself to be in a much safer environment from potential boating accidents underwater than I do on the surface. I believe the LEO’s are thinking the same thing and so that is where they spend their time enforcing the law. If you have not had a chance to go into Humbug cove on a weekend between April and September you cannot appreciate this assessment. Spend five minutes there and you will realize you are much safer underwater than on top of it.

My experience with these agencies is that they will seldom do anything positive to one users benefit. It is not worth the cost or opposition unless there is a significant financial incentive. Usually, when problems arise, instead of making changes to protect the affected users they find it is easier to just eliminate the use and thus completely eliminate the same problem from occurring in the future. I feel we are fortunate up to this point to have a decent place to dive without much restrictions. I would rather assume the potential risks as they are, while trying to gently educate boaters in the process, than to lose the right to dive completely.

Just my opinion. We can disagree and still dive together.

‘Bob
 
Good points. I appreciate hearing other perspectives and understanding where we stand from the point of view of the Lake and Park authorities.

I do think the sign idea has great merit. Perhaps we can raise funds for signage at the boat ramps. Dive shops may be willing to sponsor a sign as it could lead to new clients.

Simple sign - dive flag on left, rules on right, dive shop sponsor underneath, name, number, website.

Each sign could be sponsored by a single shop to encourage people who want to learn more about SCUBA while also informing boaters of what the dive flag means.

c.
 
As long as everyone is on the subject, here is another issue which warrants consideration.

From a liability standpoint, always use a "Diver Down" flag. In the event that a diver is ever injured, disabled or killed by a boater, one of the first issues is going to be whether a flag was present (i.e. an appropriate indicator that a diver or divers are present). Lacking a flag, a defense attorney would have a credible agruement in terms of the boat operator having no knowledge of the diver's presence. No liability means no financial reward in terms of damages or injuries sustained (including death).

On the other hand, if a flag is present and the point of impact occurrs within the restricted area around the flag, a defense based upon "I didn't know" is not going to wash. Regardless of whether boaters are aware of the "rules", it is my understand that they can still be held legally responsibe for damages resulting from violations.

Just remember, scuba diving is a unique and inherently dangerous sport involving an assumption of risk. Being struck by a boat or any other type of watercraft is one of those potential risks.
 
I was out Diving with the Ed's this weekend. Saw what happened to Kris and Mindy. This is the email in which you can send your safety concerns to: lakepleasant@mail.maricopa.gov

My email was three pages long. Here are a few excerpts:

I think the following actions need to be undertaken as soon as possible:

1. A dedicated area for divers needs to established and roped off from Jet Skis and Boats.

Thinking about how many divers are and will be going to the lake (at least while the weather is nice) they may need to set a couple of areas aside. I don't think we want to be limited to DT only or only the left side of the spillway.

2. A brochure needs to be developed and handed to boaters and jetskis educating them about dive flag and dive below markers. You could add 1 dollar to the boat fees to pay for this.
I am amazed at how many boaters I've met that claim they have never seen a diver or dive flag on the lake. Then again, it may just be that they're to drunk to see anything.

3. The lake patrol needs to start patroling known dive areas and ticketing people for endangering divers.
And use it as probable cause to do a sobriety test.


These are EASY fixes to help protects the lives of hundreds of divers who frequent the lakes every week, It would be negilgent to ignore this growing safety issue.

If you agree with these, email the address above with your solution.

Maybe if enough people bring this concern to their attention, someone will actually listen.


jcf

I pretty much agreed with the post from scubajcf on the outset but after reading some great points from Rudebob and Phxski (two divers I have a lot of respect for) I have to change my thinking. I do still think that education of boaters and finding some way of reporting dangerous boaters is something that should be pursued. The reality is that we have to watch out for each other because the boaters aren't and most likely won't. And I for one don't want to be told where I can and can't dive.
Steve.
 
Last edited:
Rudebob, Thanks for the much needed dose of reality. You are spot on..in my opinion in your assessment. The divers are in a small minority. And I am not sure I agree that the boater's are a growing safety problem. It issue has always existed and possibly the number of divers is increasing ever so slightly, but not in comparison to the number of boaters.

And how many diver accidents have been caused by boaters at Lake Pleasant. Close calls? Possibly.

If you can't beat 'em join 'em. Get your own boat and leave a look out with some rocks......was that outloud :)

Karen
 
Last edited:
All very good comments. The answer is to see if we can put up the signs. Once MOST boaters are informed of what the flags mean, most will do their part to be safe and respectful. There will always be the few who just don't care. But that is the same for most any thing.
We just do the best we can and watch out for each other. The signs would be a step in that direction. As Cindy said, it would actually promote our sport. And Hay, enter at the shore and get out at the shore will keep you about as safe as your going to get any where in this life.
 
If you can't beat 'em join 'em. Get your own boat and leave a look out with some rocks......was that outloud :)

Forget the rocks....:bigun2:

A little boat rage... :wink:
 
While I do agree that education is our best chance of improving the safety situation and that LEO may want to tend to do nothing. I believe if we take the intiative we can force LEO to take action. What I believe it would take is proof of violations. With that in mind I would suggest photos of violators that include the pilot of a boat in violation and the boats registration numbers. Given such proof and individuals that press for enforcement, LEO have little choice but to pursue actions against violators. If they were to refuse then the local gov't could be held liable in addition to the violators in the event of an accident. This is the way that a small group of activists can legally get a response from local gov't. Imagine what would happen if the media were to find out that local gov't was informed of and given proof of safety violatons and did nothing to prevent life threatening situations. Further I would suggest a volenteer enforcement group with the right to issue tickets be formed. I'm sure that the town or state wouldn't mind auxilary police for the park of sorts. Again it is politics so if at first they say no maybe getting the media involved would bring light and force action.
 
I have to agree with rudebob on his post..
We are a small group compared to the 500thousand a year that visit lake pleasant.
The problem with all this, we are going to push for safer diving and they will make it to where we have a specific dive area and we may not like it...

We need to be more aware of our surroundings when diving. When diving off shore with a flag, there should be someone above as well watching the area while diving.

Im always aware of boats when divers are down and make it a point that 1 non diver needs to be above watching the divers back..

I know a few mcso, their busy enough with what they have to work with, and sometimes that isnt enough..they do try.

I agree some boaters dont deserve to have a boat! However kindness will always prevail, i ve had folks who didnt know what the sign was yet they understood when explained to them..

As far as a brochure for boaters, like cindy said have the gates hand them out to folks, and even have the uscg hand them out,game and fish im sure they would have no problem brochures that people could pick up, heck even have someone post all over craigs list rules of the diver down flag.
There are alot of folks who use cl..

Stirring the pot may just limit us a certain area to dive at and again im not keen on that idea myself..

Watch our own is the best solution, are there going to be accidents you bet, however it may happen god had a reason that day..

Just my own opinion...
Everyone have a safe summer and safe dives.

Scubadooo!
 
I certainly don't want to turn this constructive post into "one user versus another". Yes, boaters have always been in issue at Lake Pleasant. However, with current lake levels and increased capacity. It is more crowded than ever. I think we can all agree it is a growing problem. Maybe not. I have seen a lot of boaters (more jet skis) that are just reckless and more importantly clueless around divers. And, just because we are a minority doesn't mean we have rights to speak out to the powers controlling the lake. Respecting it is a secondary purpose, it does not make it any less important to folks using the lake.

I certainly do not want to be forced to a single area. I have well over 500 dives at lake pleasant and enjoy the variety of the different sites I have been at. I have dove a dozen lakes that have dedicated dive areas and none of them restrict you to that one location. I don't know why this would be a different situation. The other school of thought here, if someone does get hurt, there is a chance parks and rec may ban diving all together in the lake. The best solution to not having an accident occur is prevention.

I like the ideas of signs and think we should pursue that idea as well. However, signs tend to blend into the background. Like the folks who camp right next to the no camping signs. A boater brochure is handed to them. Written in multiple languages and the people who receive it, know it is intended for them. A jetskier may not understand that the diver signs are related to them as well as boaters. In lieu of a user tax, why not get sponsors to pay for the handout -- which is exactly what they do with the receipts. The advertising on receipts are a revenue source for Lake Pleasant. Just some thoughts.

At the end of the day, enforcement is the best solution and the least practical. It is a low priority response. By the time they get there, the boater/jetskier will probably be gone. The sherriff's department knows that too. Unless the divers are being harassed or the lake patrol is right there when it happens, there is little chance enforcement will be effective. Furthermore, unless it is blatant endangerment, the laws and boater regulations are so loosey goosey, it may not even be a ticketable offensive. Dive Flag laws are written more towards the diver not the boater. Boaters are encouraged to stay away a reasonably prudent distance.

It is a common occurrence for me to have jet skis and boats launch right next to my dive flag at the lake. I had a sailboat tip over on top of my classes dive flag last year. I have seen dive flags used as slalom flags. I actually had a jetskier try to take my flag once. I was holding it at the time.

Just because we are a minority user, doesn't mean we shouldn't ask for simple safety steps be taken. Lake Pleasant is starting to recognize divers at the lake. This might be the right time.

Bob, I appreciate you input. And yes, we can still dive together. No disrespect taken (or given). It is this type of dialog that can round out the right proposal to bring to LP.

I look forward to the ongoing constructive input.

jcf
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom