LA county diving and training methods

[MikeFerrara]

Air share technique is probably the biggest difference. ADP is using the standard NAUI/PADI approach, with donor and receiver grasping each other and vertical. IMHO that is setting you up for poor buoyancy and an uncontrolled ascent. I believe the long hose used in the s-drill type of air share is easier and safer. One of the ADP instructors actually did tell me that the long hose configuration was unsafe. He thought a long hose was too hard to deploy, which I did on the spot for him in about two seconds. But except for that one individual I think they are an open minded group.

ADP is passionate about skin diving and snorkeling. But I can not say they made me a convert. Skills are done kneeling in ADP. Even with the long course they have a limited amount of time for each skill so that may be the right approach but it has its downsides as has been endlessly debated.

The long hose? I like it but there is little question that you can do without it in OW. I'm a big fan of horizontal ascents and descents for several reasons but the fact is that I can control an ascent or descent whether I'm horizontal, vertical or upside down. LOL

The skills done kneeling have historically solid roots that go back before every diver had a BC. With the inclusion of the watermenship skills, IMO, it does not spell death but rather a simple failure to completely keep up. My guess is that eventually LA county will get their skills work up off the bottom. I think an important difference here is that LA county has kept the watermenship stuff while some other agencies have stuck to the kneeling AND done away with watermenship. IOW, without being an expert on their techniques, I'm guessing that their approach is to NOT rely on equipment? My own POV originates more from types of diving where we don't have any chopice but to rely on equipment like cave diving, for example.

My next question is more to the point. If I went out to the west coast and watched, what would I see? Would I be able to tell the LA county trained divers from the PADI trained divers? How? What if I brought the LA county trained divers here (midwest)? To Forida spring country? What would I see? Describe the picture.

 

[blkbudd]

I have learn from observation that California divers have demonstrated a better understand or feel for beach diving. Conditions in California vary from flat glass to rolling surface and a typical beach dive day in California can be a challenge for many people in other places. ADP help me to handle the varied beach diving here in CA.

 

[CompuDude]

Well, ADP is not a cave course.

As far as I know, they have no specific objections to you wearing a long hose during the course. I intend to wear mine when I take it next year.

As for telling the difference, you should see far more solid in-water skills with the ADP diver than with a poorly-trained PADI diver. I don't know that you'll necessarily see a huge difference between an ADP diver and a well-trained PADI diver.

 

[Empty V]

I have learn from observation that California divers have demonstrated a better understand or feel for beach diving. Conditions in California vary from flat glass to rolling surface and a typical beach dive day in California can be a challenge for many people in other places. ADP help me to handle the varied beach diving here in CA.

I just got back from diving the Oriskany in Florida. I quickly learned that close to no one out there beach dives and they were amazed by how much beach diving we do. I've brought friends out who have 200+ dives in Hawaii and a so-cal beach entry was the toughest thing they've to run into. Coast to coast there is definitely a difference in the style of diving, and in the costs of the boat charters. After diving in Florida, which don't get me wrong was amazing, I really think we're spoiled out here.

Billy

 

[somewhereinla]

Well, ADP is not a cave course.

As far as I know, they have no specific objections to you wearing a long hose during the course. I intend to wear mine when I take it next year.

As for telling the difference, you should see far more solid in-water skills with the ADP diver than with a poorly-trained PADI diver. I don't know that you'll necessarily see a huge difference between an ADP diver and a well-trained PADI diver.

Actually having a long hose may present a problem for the ADP class which has nothing to do with your choice of the long hose nor ADP not beeing open to it, if it works it's good. But when practicing sharing air for example, you will make it easier for your buddy to complete the exercise which would be a detrement to him/her since in a real air emergency his or her buddy probably won't have a long hose... I do think that the long hose is probably the way to go, but we do need to train the same way with similar equipment specs. You might not want to deploy your hose that day to keep the exercise harder... my 2c.

 

[alaity47]

I find it easiest to go with "standard" stuff for ADP... a real octopus instead of an Air2, and a weight belt. Makes a lot of the skills go much more smoothly.

They do practice air shares in a variety of situations - my favorite is swimming across the olympic-sized pool (half of which is only 3 feet deep) buddy breathing without a mask. Fun, fun, fun.

The skin diving stuff is definitely all about making you more comfortable with being in the water, and with your gear. Lots of gear dons/doffs under various circumstances, and breathholding exercises. I'm definitely more comfortable hanging out at the bottom of a pool (or the ocean) than I was pre-ADP, and I know that I'm capable of so much more than I would have imagined.

For me, the best thing about ADP was all the beach diving instruction and practice. They make you try everything a few different ways to see what works best under what conditions. And if you're a huge sissy to begin with (which I was), there's plenty of staff to hold your hand (figuratively) until you get more comfortable being tossed around in the SoCal surf. I used to get physically ill in the hours before a beach dive; I was so nervous about getting in and out. These days I can just relax and enjoy the dive, knowing that I'm going to be ok. I definitely owe that to ADP.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Pardon what might be a stupid question but...I am in the midwest, LOL. When we talk about "beach diving" are we talking about beaches or shore dives in general? I ask because I've done some beach diving on the east coast and while the surf was high it was a nice sand beach. I've done some swimming (didn't have time to set up any diving) on the west coast (Oceanside) and the surf was pretty big but, again, a nice beach. I've also done some entries on some really jagged rocky shoreline in some lakes that are big enough to get rough water. The only thing that I thought was a little tough was those entries off the rocks. But...We've climbed Kentucky mountains (little ones) with ropes and scuba gear to get to caves too. LOL

Am I misunderstanding a "beach entry/exit"?

What about some other skills? What do they require in the way of the regular stuff like buoyancy control, trim and just diving in general? How do they teach it?

 

[CompuDude]

We're talking about ocean beach diving, and dealing with real surf to get to the diving part. And then coming back out through the same surf (or worse!).

 

[Empty V]

Do they teach you about tide changes and how they affect the surf and vis? Just curious.

Billy

 

[radinator]

SoCal beach diving means you are entering the water off of both sand and rocks, and any combination thereof. I've recently had my most difficult exit ever at Malaga cove, where the rocks are bowling ball size or slightly larger, covered in slick alge. I started hitting the rocks in about 4 feet of water, and ended up crawling out onto the rocky beach after about 10-12 minutes of hard work. It was not fun, and certainly made the marginal vis dive that proceeded it 'not worth it'. Other than the exit it would have been an ok dive, but that exit was rough!

Once the rocks start to get larger you can do some rock climbing to get out (like Casino Point if you avoid the stairs - I did that with doubles about 8 months ago). Sand can be difficult also, especially in the winter when the bottom is not smooth at all, but full of gullies and ripples so you are alternating between ankle-depth and neck-depth on your way in.

By the way, I took LA County ADP in 2005 (right after completing DIR Fundies), and went through the instructor program (UICC) in early 2006. I've helped out in one ADP and one UICC since then. I would be helping this year except work has me working far too long on too many days, so I haven't made it out to ADP yet this year. I am on the hook to teach the dive physics portion of the course whenever I find out when they've scheduled it.

There is one individual instructor who told me on my first day of ADP as a student "If I had my way that long hose wouldn't be allowed in this course." He was the only one with a problem, though, but he could not explain it beyond a flat-out rejection. Every 'reason' he gave was flat out false and in the end it seemed to me he hadn't thought really through the details and was just reciting objections he's heard. Anyway, nobody else said anything about my DIR set-up.

They do require snorkels for beach entries, so I got a fold-up one for the entries and immediately took it off so as to not interfere with long hose deployment while diving.

The way I've broken the classes down for people is that I thought DIR-F was the best at teaching the diver about himself in the water (trim, kicks, etc...) while I thought LA County ADP did a great job with teaching the diver about his environment here as SoCal divers (sandy beaches, rocky beaches, currents, tides, rips, freshwater lakes, altitude diving, bad vis, search & recovery, lift bag operations, etc.). Not a perfect breakdown, but gets to the heart of the matter.

Since LA County has the long history, and connections with county government as well as local cities, we get access that other programs don't get. We've had the Long Beach S&R divers run us through some search and recovery techniques, with a simulated in-water aircraft accident. We've had lectures by the Scripp's Institute Antarctica Diving Safety Officer. The College of Oceaneering has set us up with hard-hats in their training tank and run us through their hyperbaric chambers to a 165 foot dive. (Yours truly passed on that one, those small chambers are small! I'd rather wait for the larger Catalina Chamber, thank you.)

Ray

Not edited - rewritten. (several times - a writers prerogative).