LA county diving and training methods

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CompuDude:
We're talking about ocean beach diving, and dealing with real surf to get to the diving part. And then coming back out through the same surf (or worse!).

And the getting out always seems to be worse, for reasons i cant explain. I look forward to having more confidence in the surf.
My buddy is my wife, and at 5'3", she gets knocked down easily and often. I need to be better to help her. I myself have been rolled in the surf a few times and if it werent for my generally unpaniced disposition, and my OW experience learning in California, I would not have been immediatly reactive to it, grabbing my mask and reg and just rolling along the bottom until it let me go.

I think my training in the PADI mold was adequate for learning the things you have to keep practicing. But I dont believe I ever attained any sense of high proficiency at anything, and for that I was disappointed.

After reading all the deaths and near misses on this board, I have come to the realization that more training is required, both to become better at the things I have been introduced to previously, and to learn about the fabled "things I dont know that I dont know".

I am also looking for a tougher course, one that says "not good enough, do it again" without worrying that I might leave the sport or get discouraged. I hope ADP is that course.
 
CompuDude:
We're talking about ocean beach diving, and dealing with real surf to get to the diving part. And then coming back out through the same surf (or worse!).

Empty V:
Do they teach you about tide changes and how they affect the surf and vis? Just curious.

Billy

These comments/questions are for me? My only ocean beach diving was on the east coast when the weather was bad and the charters were blown out. What little I know about tides is from...I don't know... I guess the PADI training materials and basic science. When I dived there, we saught local info as to tide tables and when the best time to dive was. We were diving primarily at high slack tide although some of the places we dived were along a jetty where the tidal current was long shore. The plan for the first dive was to walk down the jetty and drift back (incoming tide). That was a bad plan because I hate walking. We did multiple dives so we ended up just diving whatever was there. Vis? It was all like our worst quarries (though I believe the best vis should be at high slack?) but with different critters and warmer. We lived but how did we do otherwise?

There you have it. In one pragraph we have my complete ocean beach diving log.
 
Dash Riprock:
And the getting out always seems to be worse, for reasons i cant explain. I look forward to having more confidence in the surf.
My buddy is my wife, and at 5'3", she gets knocked down easily and often. I need to be better to help her. I myself have been rolled in the surf a few times and if it werent for my generally unpaniced disposition, and my OW experience learning in California, I would not have been immediatly reactive to it, grabbing my mask and reg and just rolling along the bottom until it let me go.

That's a toughy... when I started diving, I always wanted my husband to "help me" through the surf. But really - what can you do? Hanging onto another person just means you both get knocked down.

I'm about your wife's height, and it's definitely annoying to lose contact with the bottom before my buddy does! But I've learned what works for me, and these days if I get knocked down, it no longer scares me. (Plus I'm much better at NOT getting knocked down, now that I know the proper ways to brace against waves or duck under them). Just keep doing it, and keep doing it, until it gets easier.

The rocky beach entries are also very well-covered in ADP; I picked up lots of tricks about what to look for in a good entry spot. Old Marineland (the point) used to scare the crap out of me - I couldn't believe people actually crawled over those rocks with tanks on. These days, it no longer intimidates me. In fact, I love that site. :)

Dash Riprock:
I am also looking for a tougher course, one that says "not good enough, do it again" without worrying that I might leave the sport or get discouraged. I hope ADP is that course.

I would say YES to that!
 
radinator:
SoCal beach diving means you are entering the water off of both sand and rocks, and any combination thereof. I've recently had my most difficult exit ever at Malaga cove, where the rocks are bowling ball size or slightly larger, covered in slick alge. I started hitting the rocks in about 4 feet of water, and ended up crawling out onto the rocky beach after about 10-12 minutes of hard work. It was not fun, and certainly made the marginal vis dive that proceeded it 'not worth it'. Other than the exit it would have been an ok dive, but that exit was rough!

Once the rocks start to get larger you can do some rock climbing to get out (like Casino Point if you avoid the stairs - I did that with doubles about 8 months ago). Sand can be difficult also, especially in the winter when the bottom is not smooth at all, but full of gullies and ripples so you are alternating between ankle-depth and neck-depth on your way in.

By the way, I took LA County ADP in 2005 (right after completing DIR Fundies), and went through the instructor program (UICC) in early 2006. I've helped out in one ADP and one UICC since then. I would be helping this year except work has me working far too long on too many days, so I haven't made it out to ADP yet this year. I am on the hook to teach the dive physics portion of the course whenever I find out when they've scheduled it.

There is one individual instructor who told me on my first day of ADP as a student "If I had my way that long hose wouldn't be allowed in this course." He was the only one with a problem, though, but he could not explain it beyond a flat-out rejection. Every 'reason' he gave was flat out false and in the end it seemed to me he hadn't thought really through the details and was just reciting objections he's heard. Anyway, nobody else said anything about my DIR set-up.

They do require snorkels for beach entries, so I got a fold-up one for the entries and immediately took it off so as to not interfere with long hose deployment while diving.

The way I've broken the classes down for people is that I thought DIR-F was the best at teaching the diver about himself in the water (trim, kicks, etc...) while I thought LA County ADP did a great job with teaching the diver about his environment here as SoCal divers (sandy beaches, rocky beaches, currents, tides, rips, freshwater lakes, altitude diving, bad vis, search & recovery, lift bag operations, etc.). Not a perfect breakdown, but gets to the heart of the matter.

Since LA County has the long history, and connections with county government as well as local cities, we get access that other programs don't get. We've had the Long Beach S&R divers run us through some search and recovery techniques, with a simulated in-water aircraft accident. We've had lectures by the Scripp's Institute Antarctica Diving Safety Officer. The College of Oceaneering has set us up with hard-hats in their training tank and run us through their hyperbaric chambers to a 165 foot dive. (Yours truly passed on that one, those small chambers are small! I'd rather wait for the larger Catalina Chamber, thank you.)

Ray

Not edited - rewritten. (several times - a writers prerogative).

Ray, Thanks! Good reading and very interesting.
 
MikeFerrara:
Pardon what might be a stupid question but...I am in the midwest, LOL. When we talk about "beach diving" are we talking about beaches or shore dives in general? I ask because I've done some beach diving on the east coast and while the surf was high it was a nice sand beach. I've done some swimming (didn't have time to set up any diving) on the west coast (Oceanside) and the surf was pretty big but, again, a nice beach. I've also done some entries on some really jagged rocky shoreline in some lakes that are big enough to get rough water. The only thing that I thought was a little tough was those entries off the rocks. But...We've climbed Kentucky mountains (little ones) with ropes and scuba gear to get to caves too. LOL

Am I misunderstanding a "beach entry/exit"?

What about some other skills? What do they require in the way of the regular stuff like buoyancy control, trim and just diving in general? How do they teach it?

Rock, Reef and Rips. Dealing with the "3Rs" + the tide/surf and any other possible conditions is what ADP means by beach entry/exit. Some beach have sand which make it easier of course, but many diving sites are reef/rock (silpery and very sharp) entry/exit which can be very scary and dangerous if you are not trainned properly.
 
somewhereinla:
Rock, Reef and Rips. Dealing with the "3Rs" + the tide/surf and any other possible conditions is what ADP means by beach entry/exit. Some beach have sand which make it easier of course, but many diving sites are reef/rock (silpery and very sharp) entry/exit which can be very scary and dangerous if you are not trainned properly.

3Rs? Help me out here. Don't use such big words without defining them.
 
Oh heck, it's a good thing I'm not diving today...rock, reef and rips, right? Got it.
 

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